PGA Tour University: Everything You Need to Know | Brendan von Doehren, Aaron Goldberg | PGA Players’ Podcast #16
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Episode Summary
This year marks the inaugural PGA Tour University class that will have immediate access to the Korn Ferry Tour and Mackenzie Tour. Like with any new system there have been lots of questions, plenty of conflicting thoughts, and some incorrect information swirling, that may influence players decisions whether to turn pro or come back for one more year of college golf. We decided to go straight to the source.
Senior Director at the PGA Tour and creator of the PGA Tour University, Brendan von Doehren, joins us to walk through the genesis of PGA Tour U, how the system works, and clarifies some of the questions and misconceptions we have been hearing on the ground. If you are a player, coach, or part of their inner circles you do not want to miss this episode.
Episode Highlights
(1:58) How was PGA Tour University created?
(5:23) Who had input and was consulted?
(8:42) Benefit to the players and the Tour?
(11:32) Who is eligible in the rankings?
(13:16) How do the rankings work?
(14:00) What events count and why?
(17:44) What access to Korn Ferry and other tours is available?
(26:48) How much movement in the rankings is expected the last couple months?
(31:23) How will the rankings look next year?
(34:29) How will players in the rankings this year who come back, fit in to next year’s rankings?
+ Read the Transcript
Aaron Goldberg (00:01):
Hey everyone. Welcome back to the PGA Players podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Goldberg, Certified Financial Planner and Private Wealth Advisor at AWM Capital. Today we got a great guest. We're going to be talking about PGA Tour University. We have senior director at the PGA Tour, Brendan Von Doehren, with us. He is the creator of PGA Tour University. So we're going to have him answer some questions about not only how it was created, how it works, and then some of the questions that we've been hearing on the ground from players, coaches, agents, parents, everyone in that inner circle, as you as the player are trying to turn pro and want to make sure that you understand exactly how the system works and what advantages you could be getting from the PGA Tour University. So without further ado, Brendan, thanks for joining us. Looking forward to the conversation, but yeah, thanks for being here.
Brendan Von Doehren (00:57):
Absolutely Aaron, thank you for having me on, great to be with you on this.
Aaron Goldberg (01:01):
Perfect. We've been getting some questions and I don't think it's confusion based on the system being confusing, I think it's just lack of time being spent really reading up on it and the telephone game of, hey, someone hears this, someone hears that and then they tell this person. And so I think a little bit gets lost in translation. So one thing we want to do is try to clarify as much as possible. On this podcast we want to be the best source of information for professional golfers and players that are going to be turning professional. So we figured, hey, if there's confusion, why not go to the source? And as the creator of PGA Tour University, we figured you'd be the best one to ask. So we really appreciate it. So as we get going, why don't we take a step back and have you tell us a little bit about how this system got created and what went into it?
Brendan Von Doehren (01:58):
Sure, absolutely. No, that's a great starting point. And really PGA Tour University has been an initiative and a project that has now been going probably into four years in the making. I think this past year with the Big Three coming out in college, catching fire, I think everybody looked at it and thinking that the PGA Tour had a quick reaction to all that. And if it were only that easy, we would be way ahead of the game. But going back really, Aaron, kind of like your background, the start a little bit of this, I played in college and I coached in college, now been at the PGA Tour six years and in a different couple business capacities. And really, I think as we take a look at our business four years ago and its relationship with college, as you know and a lot of your listeners know, there's really never been a official relationship between the PGA Tour and college golf.
Brendan Von Doehren (02:52):
And really that's gone back now 54 years that there's been sort of this overlap, so to speak, between the two organizations. And the reality is the game has changed, right? Professional golf is modernized. The players are exceptional, achieving success right away at all levels, the Korn Ferry Tour, the PGA Tour, the international tours. And so this was a chance for us, the PGA Tour University, to take a look at that and figure out what is a holistic approach to the college game, everything from eligibility to access, to education, to all those things. As we look at, the college game is the lifeblood of our tours. We've looked at the data and the research to show obviously that the PGA Tour, Korn Ferry Tour are members that predominantly are coming from the college game. And so that's the hotbed for us.
Brendan Von Doehren (03:45):
And so we looked at it as a business opportunity to really reach down into the college game and figure out a system that is fair and equitable, and I think a platform that's positioned to be a win-win for everybody, right? It's a win for college, it's a win for the professional game. And so all those little things was the genesis of PGA Tour U. We spent really a long time vetting this, feedback from every stakeholder and constituent really involved in this, the governing bodies, the USGA, R&A, the NCAA, obviously our players at every level college game. So it was very slow and deliberate and thoughtful. But I think at the end of it, this past June 1, 2020, when we launched it, it was something kind of culminating and I think is really going to be transformational for the future ahead of us.
Aaron Goldberg (04:38):
Yeah, that's great. A lot of things you said there had to go back into how many people have input and how many people you at the tour talked to about this to make sure that you weren't just jumping into something. I've talked with a lot of college coaches and coaches on the GCAA board, and they've had a lot of conversations with you guys and a lot of input on it. And I think that shows in how the system is set up because it really will value college golf and strengthen their game as well as strengthening the tour in the future. So I think that's great that you were not only willing, but sought out that input.
Brendan Von Doehren (05:23):
Yeah. I think anything that has to be long-lasting really has got to be thought out and spend considerable amount of time with all these constituents to ensure that ... I'm sure we'll always have tweaks to PGA Tour University as we move forward, like any kind of business property, but I think you get it off the ground with buy-in from everybody across the game of golf. There has to be that feedback and thought, and again, not everybody gets their way and their Christmas wishlist, shall we say, but I think it's multi-beneficial for everybody.
Aaron Goldberg (05:59):
Yeah. With the amount of people I've talked to about it, I've heard nothing but really good reviews about it. And like you said, of course everyone has their wishlist items that could have been included or not included, but it's pretty rare, especially in golf, we know how much golfers, and I'm including myself and you in this, like to complain about especially things like rankings. It's pretty impressive how few the complaints have been. Everyone seems to, especially for the first year, be like, yeah, you know what, they had did a really good job of getting this set up so kudos to you and your team and everyone that helped put that together, because I know how hard that can be. And I know how hard it is to please not only golfers, but golfers on multiple different levels that have different stakes in this too.
Brendan Von Doehren (06:48):
Yeah, absolutely. Some days were harder than others, but again, I think at the end of this is really something that I think's going to be sustainable for our business, sustainable for college golf. As I like to think about it and say, with others, there's no better time to play college golf than now and as we look forward. So the days of when you played and and everyone before, it's a new day in college golf.
Aaron Goldberg (07:15):
Yeah, it's crazy. We were talking about this last week, but when we were coming out of college, we didn't have anything like this. And just the stepping stones now, not only to get out on these tours, but then the stepping stones of these tours have not only with the playoffs on the Korn Ferry Tour, but the step ups from the Mackenzie Tour, the Latin America Tour, the China Tour, it was a long time ago now, but I was fortunate enough to win the money list in Canada. And I got to go to second stage. That was my big prize for it, which at the time was great, but it's a lot different than now where you'd have full status on Korn Ferry Tour the next year.
Aaron Goldberg (07:53):
So the guys that think they should be getting more, be happy with what you're getting. Obviously there's always room for improvement, and the tour's moving in that direction, but hey, it's on the backs of hardworking guys like us that they got there. No, I'm just kidding. We appreciated it.
Brendan Von Doehren (08:12):
Absolutely.
Aaron Goldberg (08:13):
One other thing, as we talk about the development of this, that I had a question about. You mentioned this, there is benefits to the tour and you understand that this is the bread and butter of where your future players are going to come from. We'll get into the benefits for the college players. But can you speak a little bit to the benefits that you on the tour see whether it's immediate or in the future?
Brendan Von Doehren (08:42):
Yeah, I think there's a few things, I'll just kind of raise a couple. I think, one, on the competitive side, this is going to strengthen our competitive products. So if we know that we have a pipeline for these top college players to ensure that they play with us and they have a path that is potentially accelerated through our system, that makes every player in the field matter that much more. So just innately, it's going to strengthen our competitive product. I think, second, more on the business side is, this is going to allow us to really story tell a lot better of the college players coming up and through our system. Obviously with the Golf Channel and their commitment to college golf, you're starting to see names and understand who these players are younger.
Brendan Von Doehren (09:33):
And so this is just a vehicle for us to transport those players and have them much more recognizable earlier on in their PGA Tour career. So things like this is really just making in some ways the process a bit faster and, like I said, accelerated. So for us, it's fan engagement as well, for our product, new fans, serving existing core fans, golf people that love college golf and geeking out on that PGA three-university search for that. So I think selfishly for us as a business, those are things that prior to PGA Tour U, we obviously didn't have, and this is going to really amplify all those areas.
Aaron Goldberg (10:20):
Yeah, that's great. One thing you said is the storytelling, I think that's going to go both ways. It's going to be beneficial for the tour, obviously, especially for the guys to get up there real fast, but it's also beneficial for the players because they're going to have a bigger platform from the start to feed off of. And I want to stay on topic with the rankings, but I think on the business side, I think for players in the next 5 to 10 years, that's really going to be important for them is understanding their platform and what they can do with the storytelling side of it. So that's great that that's one of the things that went into it.
Aaron Goldberg (10:55):
Let's shift gears a little bit and let's go into how the rankings work. Let's start with just a base level and work our way up because I want to make sure that everybody that's listening has a good understanding of it because I think it is important to really define what events go into it, how they're ranked, how the strength of schedules work, what tournaments do count, what tournaments don't. And then at the back end of that, what does the top 5 get? What do 6 through 15 get, that type of thing.
Brendan Von Doehren (11:32):
Sure. So before we get into rankings, I think to set up into that, let's just talk about eligibility on who is eligible for PGA Tour U. Just to kind of clarify for everybody. And I think that that works into the ranking discussion. So for us, again, as we looked at this over a number of years, this program is for players that exhaust four years in college golf. So they have to be, in simple terms, a senior. And we've been steadfast on that belief, not only I think what says about players staying in school and encouraging players to get a degree in education. I think as a company, that's very powerful. I think beyond that though, as we looked at it, and we kind of started backwards, we took a look at the PGA Tour and who's successful at the top of the golfing world and those characteristics, where did they come from? Where did they play?
Brendan Von Doehren (12:22):
And the reality is the numbers show that if a player stays in college for four years, he's very likely if he's at the top of his game to then be for a long period of time at the top of golf at the PGA Tour level. And so working backwards, we made our eligibility around that, right? And it's for those players that are very mature, they showed sustained success in college, they showed how to win. They've showed long periods of play. And they're not outliers that just kind of catch a hot streak for one semester and they're 18 years old. So I would say off the top of the bat, PGA Tour U in some regards is not aimed at everybody. And in some aspects, I think, those outliers of success that maybe want to turn pro earlier for other reasons, that's all fair game, right?
Brendan Von Doehren (13:16):
And you can turn pro at any time and try to make your way through the tours, but PGA Tour U was really designed for those four-year players. And so COVID's thrown a little bit of a wrench in that this year, but again, in simple terms, it's for that fourth-year player, you'll start to show up in the rankings. About the rankings, we can get into that. And that is, yeah, for everybody out there, again, we studied this over a long period of time, whether, we maybe take it in-house and do a ranking, or obviously there's a number of different college rankings out there. And I think, as you alluded to early in the podcast, that everybody can complain about rankings, right, at every level. And that's the nature of the world we live in.
Brendan Von Doehren (14:00):
But we ended up partnering with World Amateur Golf Ranking, the R&A and the USGA to really use their ranking engine and their system per se. And so just very simply, I'll try to take everybody through this, that how WAGR is ranking players and their points awarded for events, whether it's amateur or college, we are using that same way and the same point values associated with WAGR for PGA Tour University. So again, we are not calculating our own point system. That is how is now through WAGR. But what we are doing is we are putting on some filters onto WAGR's ranking, and those filters are the types of events that are counted in our ranking, as well as the ranking period. So first, the type of events. For PGA Tour University ranking, we are taking all Division I college events, as well as PGA Tour events, including three of the four majors that a player would be eligible for.
Brendan Von Doehren (15:08):
So again, it is not for the summer amateur play. It's not for summer amateur tournaments. It's specifically designed for Division I college events and PGA Tour events. For this 2021 class, the ranking period started in the spring of 2019, and moving forward, obviously until the conclusion of the '20-'21 NCAA national championship. So that any events between spring of 2019 all the way up to the NCAAs count. So there's not a falling off or a 104-week rolling period like WAGR does. We have a designed beginning point and a designed endpoint. So players that are currently playing that are listening to this, the remainder eight weeks or so here, that all counts obviously until the end of the national championship. And then for the 2022 class, we'll have a new set of players and a new ranking period.
Aaron Goldberg (16:06):
Perfect. I think that's a great background on how it works, why you guys did it the way you did. And I think it shows that why it is working is because you're using a system that's been in place for a little while that the USGA and R&A have developed and works well. A couple of questions to go off of that. Just to make sure everyone understands, including myself, the point system is an average of the events, correct? So they're not just adding on new points if they play more events, there's a divisor that's factored in. So that's correct, yes?
Brendan Von Doehren (16:46):
Yes. So the divisor for us for this 2021 class is 13 events. And again, this is a very odd situation where we had spring of last year canceled, this past fall we had a mixed bag of teams playing. So a player the minimum divisor for us is 13. So in simple terms, it's going to be your total number of points you've earned in our period divided by your divisor number. If you've played more than 13 events, it would be how many ever number of events you've played. And that gives you your average points. That's the basis for our ranking.
Aaron Goldberg (17:23):
Perfect. And then we talked about this prior to this podcast, and I think it's really important for people to understand why you included just the college events and not the amateur events. I think you made some really good points of why.
Brendan Von Doehren (17:44):
Yeah. So as we looked at it, and again, one of our objectives obviously is at the end of every year to identify those top 15 players, the best 15 players within our system. And I think as you take a look at amateur play and amateur events, there's a wide variety of amateur types that play in events, from junior players to mid-amateurs, to obviously college players.
Brendan Von Doehren (18:11):
And so, as we were looking at ... and we'll get to the access, this kind of new access we're giving, it's very important that we have apples to apples to ensure that these players are playing against each other head to head, and we can eliminate some of those amateur events to, again, accomplish identifying the top 15 players. And again, the feedback over the past few years with the amateur game in general, we're supporting it through more players obviously staying in school, playing in amateur events, we're not allowing Korn Ferry Tour, international tour events within our ranking to hopefully push in the summertime those college players to play in all these amateur events to support that kind of sector of the amateur game is very important to us as well. So yes, it's strategically designed for college events only.
Aaron Goldberg (19:10):
Perfect. Yeah. Because that has been a question that's been asked, well, I played well in two of these amateur events, why doesn't that go in? And I think it's important for everyone to realize there was thought behind that. And there is a reason and I think that makes a lot of sense, it's not apples to apples with everybody else that's in the field. If you win the event, yeah, you beat everybody. But if you finish fifth or eighth or tenth and two juniors and a mid-am beats you, how do you rank that? So I think that's ... it goes well into why, and then it also shows how important the college game is and how strong those fields are too. So it doesn't take anything away from those amateur events, if anything it helps support them, like you said, because more players hopefully will think about staying amateur that maybe would have turned pro early, and this way they'll have stronger fields in the future.
Brendan Von Doehren (20:02):
Correct.
Aaron Goldberg (20:04):
So let's get into the access.
Brendan Von Doehren (20:06):
Yeah. Absolutely. Again, our goal-
Aaron Goldberg (20:09):
Go ahead.
Brendan Von Doehren (20:09):
Go ahead. Sorry. No, I was going to say, yeah, our goal would be to have more players stay in school for PGA Tour University, and I think that's going to bode well for the amateur game in general.
Aaron Goldberg (20:23):
Yeah. I would agree with that. Let's get into the access because I think that's really important and I want to make sure everyone not only understands it, but understands what an opportunity it is, because especially in a year like this and last year where there aren't a whole lot of places to play, so access is that much more important. So why don't you take us through that?
Brendan Von Doehren (20:49):
Yeah. So again, the ranking is ongoing now, it's updated every Wednesday, guys are jockeying back and forth for what we think of now as the top 5 and the top 15. So those will be the new sort of trends and everyone will understand in college golf, those are the lines. And so at the conclusion of the NCAA national championship, the top 5 players on the ranking list will be exempt on the Korn Ferry Tour, starting the following week, June 7 through 14 at the BMW Charity Pro-Am for the remainder of all the open, full-field events on the Korn Ferry Tour. So for this season, that'll be seven events. So these players become members of the Korn Ferry Tour, they earn membership, they're into the field, it's not sponsors' exemptions, it's eligibility that's written in.
Brendan Von Doehren (21:44):
Obviously in those seven events who knows what a player could do, they could catch fire and they could get their PGA Tour card and finish in the top 25 on the Korn Ferry Tour points list. They could finish top 75 on the Korn Ferry Tour points list, that would then get them into the Korn Ferry Tour finals, an additional three events. Regardless of how these players do in those seven events, they also have the access path of final stage of Korn Ferry Tour Q-School. So they are exempt into that field as well. And by virtue of playing in Korn Ferry Tour finals, that then gets you membership on the Korn Ferry Tour the entire next year. You'll obviously have to play in Q-School for your number per se, the better you play in Q-School, the better early season access you'll have on the Korn Ferry Tour, but at a bare minimum, they would be a Korn Ferry Tour member the following year if they get in as a conditional member, they try to Monday qualify, et cetera.
Brendan Von Doehren (22:43):
So really as you think about it, and everybody out there, it's really the six months from June to December, as well as some access the following year for that top five, which again, I think as we just sit here and think about this, and as you started the podcast from where college golf used to be, that is an understatement to say an incredible opportunity for these players to really get a head start. They're going to have to prove it with their clubs, like everything golf is a meritocracy and this is not a golden ticket for life. This is an ability for them to access fields, to essentially play well and accelerate through the Korn Ferry Tour to the PGA Tour.
Brendan Von Doehren (23:30):
Players 6 through 15 on the PGA Tour University ranking lists would have access into the international tours again the week following the NCAA national championship on PGA Tour, Mackenzie Tour, PGA Tour Canada, or Latinoamerica Tour. And then again, depending on how they do, they also have access and are exempt into the second stage of Korn Ferry Tour Q-School again and later in the year. So as I just said, for those players, those 10, that's an incredible opportunity to be exempt into Mackenzie Tour. You can plan your schedule, you can plan your travel, you know exactly what you're doing, which is just enormous for those players. And you really know what's out there in front of you. It's very objective. And again, it's a great opportunity and a path forward for them.
Aaron Goldberg (24:28):
Yeah. There's a lot to go off there, but the opportunity is huge. And I think that's underestimated. I think one of the biggest hurdles when guys turn pro is the adjustment from the college game to pros, where in college, you show up with your bag and you have to have the right color shirt that day, but coach takes care of everything else. The day you turn pro, guess what? That's all gone. You got to figure out how you're getting there, where you're playing, what you're playing in, rental car, hotel, all that stuff. That's before you even show up at the golf course, let alone picking your schedule or getting into an event.
Aaron Goldberg (25:09):
So knowing that, hey, whether you're in the top five and you're in the Korn Ferry events for the rest of the seven events going into the playoffs, or it's on the Mackenzie Tour or Latin America Tour and you're in those events for the rest of the year and knowing that schedule so you're not trying to plan Monday qualifiers and all sorts of different travel schedules. And you can build out a schedule that you know and have access to, it just takes one more variable off the table. And one of the things we talk about a lot is the more we can remove distractions, the better opportunity you have to play well. As you said, your clubs still have to do the talking, but if you can remove distractions, it's really going to help you achieve the most potential you can if possible.
Brendan Von Doehren (25:59):
Yeah, you're right on, and I think, to back up more macro, in the 15 and the 5 and the 15 is, every year now, this is really a pipeline and an attraction point for players. This is what everybody's gunning for, and their eyes are kind of set on this. And so to be able to have opportunities for these players and really, for us and for the college game, to have this connectivity, to really start this, I think we're going to see this really kind of blossom. And I think for the college game, an attraction point for players around the world, right, to come to college in America and really have this direct path wherever you come from now.
Aaron Goldberg (26:48):
Yeah. To be honest, I hadn't really thought about that, but it bodes well for college golf because it's just a bigger attraction now for those international players to come over as opposed to staying maybe in their home country and playing on their national amateur team, but not really going to school. So let's go over a few questions I've been getting, and these are questions I have as well. As this first class, if you will, comes to fruition, one of the things I'm interested in is how much do you think over this last, say, six weeks of the season or eight weeks of this season before that ranking, before nationals and then the rankings are finalized, how much do you think we're going to see next there? Or do you think it's pretty much just jockeying for position at this point?
Aaron Goldberg (27:40):
Obviously, if somebody gets hot and wins a couple events at the end, they can really work their way up, but are the national championship, the NCAA regionals and the conference championships, are those strength of schedules higher enough than regular season type college events where somebody could make a big move or do we know guys that are in the top 25 are probably the ones that have the best chance to be in the top 15 and the top 10 guys really have the best chance to be in the top 5 and everyone outside of that, yeah, they could win the last four events, but outside of that, they're going to have a tough time really making a big move.
Brendan Von Doehren (28:24):
Yeah. I think without using specifics, I think you've got a pretty good grasp on it there towards the latter part of what you said. I think really the conference championships, the regionals and national championship, those are going to be high point value tournaments, just looking at the strength of the players, 1 to 100 or whatever the field size is, right, so those are kind of concentrated with really good players, which means the finished positions, those top finished positions, are going to carry some pretty heavy points, especially at nationals. So I do think that you could see a player move up quite a bit. I think to some degree it's going to be relative, right? Because our sample size goes all the way back to the spring of '19.
Brendan Von Doehren (29:04):
And it's designed that way, to really see sort of a body of work. Obviously we want hot hands coming into our events, and it's likely that those players that are towards the top will likely play pretty well in those events, just again, looking historically how they've played over the breadth of the time.
Brendan Von Doehren (29:25):
But I think to your point, if you're a top 50 player or so, you've got a lot to play for, a lot of points out there on the table. And so I wouldn't take anything for granted. Again, we will see volatility in the ranking. I think we saw it started a couple of weeks ago with the new top 5 players. And so we saw, I think in the top 15, last few weeks some changes. And this is sort of coming off of I would just say traditional week-to-week college play. This is not even getting into the meat of the big points. So long-winded way of answering your question to say I think we will see some movement, but the system is not necessarily designed to see crazy volatility, just like I think other ranking systems are regardless of professional, amateur, et cetera.
Aaron Goldberg (30:18):
Yeah. And I think that's good. I think it rewards somebody if they get hot and do really well and, like you said, win a few events or something like that. They're going to have the opportunity to move way up, but overall, it's going to reward their body of work and not just one or two hot tournaments. So I think that's a good thing. Is there anything in particular you and everybody else behind on your team that you're going to be watching for as this first class plays out in terms of possible future adjustments. Like you said earlier, it's something that we'll always keep an eye on as a business like that we may need to make adjustments. And I don't have anything straight off the top of my head that you guys should adjust or would even think about, but it's always good to ... you've built it out and you're starting to see the system run. Is there anything you'll be looking at as this plays out over the next two months to see, hey, maybe we should tweak this a little bit next year?
Brendan Von Doehren (31:23):
Yeah. Specifically for next year, I think one of the things with COVID being thrown in and, again, going back to fall, some teams played, some didn't, spring, last year they didn't, it's for this '22 class just understanding our ranking period, as well as the divisor to ensure that the new crop of players have a level playing field. And again, we start them off in August, September the first ranking for that class commensurate with how much they've played. So for us, it's sort of a restart over to this class in the sense of making sure we get those specifics correct. And then hopefully on the back end of '22, '23, we get out of the COVID extra year eligibility stuff. And we have that more traditional two-year period that's pretty straightforward as well as the four-year players.
Brendan Von Doehren (32:20):
I think we'll get more into normalcy of all that. But besides COVID, to your question, we're just going to look at the ranking every year holistically, what is feedback from people to ensure that we are representing the top players. So again, that's our motive, that's our goal, that's our driver. So anything to the contrary where there could be situations where it's not identifying the best players or it's not a level playing field, we're always going to look at that. We want this thing to be the best it can be. And so that for us is an ongoing process. That's not a one time and then we go to sleep on it. But I would say just like everything we need to have a longer body of work for this. We need to see a considerable amount of data to support changes, to support modifications. We're not working on this with a knee-jerk reaction or any opinions as it relates to changes, it's going to have to really warrant and merit changes. And of course we're likely to do it.
Aaron Goldberg (33:27):
Perfect. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. It's looking at the whole body and not making that quick reaction. One thing you mentioned that develops a new question for me that I've been hearing is next year and how the rankings will work. And one of the things I've heard from a lot of players that are contemplating, hey, should I stay in the rankings for this year? Or should I come back for another year? I'm not quite in the top 15, maybe not even in the top 30, but hey, if I'm 30th and 15 guys come out of the rankings, well, now all of a sudden I'm 15th in the rankings. And I don't think that's quite true because they're forgetting that the juniors this year, the third-year players, are now going to enter the rankings for next year. So I think it's really important that they understand not only are those players going to be entering from their third year going into their fourth year, but it's understanding the timeline or the body of work that's going to be calculated on.
Brendan Von Doehren (34:29):
Yeah, exactly. You're right on in the sense of, if you are a '21 player and you're coming back, wherever you are in the ranking it's not necessarily an identifier at all, where you're going to be at '22. We're going to have a new crop of players coming in. We're changing the ranking period, changing the divisor. And so again, third-year players right now that are going to be going into the fourth year, as well as guys coming back. So it's a new bucket of players that's going to really establish that first ranking. Obviously, if you're a top player in this year coming back for next year and you've played well this year, those events are going to count for you next year. So that does bode well for you. But I would not say you're finish position this year is going to be your starting position next year at all.
Aaron Goldberg (35:24):
Yeah. I think they're forgetting that there's some very good third-year players this year that will probably definitely be in the top 15 and may even be in the top 5 when their first rankings come out. As you've mentioned, in golf it's a meritocracy, you got to play well, and there's always going to be younger guys coming up that are trying to take your spot. So you better get used to it now while you're in college, because it's not going away when you're a pro.
Brendan Von Doehren (35:56):
Absolutely. You're right on. I'm looking forward to August, September, whenever we decide to bring out the '22 ranking is getting a sneak peek of what that looks like to see these underclassmen, the juniors this year that are going to be in, some of the names that we haven't been following as much in PGA Tour University because they're not this class, but they're going to pop in and everyone's going to say, oh yeah, I forgot about that guy. And I forgot about that guy. So to your point, no players are running from anything. Every class is going to be strong and that just shows the depth of college golf that you are going to have to play well to be in that 5 and 15, there's no backing your way into anything.
Aaron Goldberg (36:40):
Yeah, exactly. Well Brendan, hey I really appreciate it. I think this is great information for not only players, but their parents, their coaches, everybody in that circle of college golf and even pro golf because I think it's very important that the guys on Korn Ferry and PGA Tour and Mackenzie and Latin America Tour understand how this works and why these college players are getting spots. Anything you want to add that we didn't go over before we jump off?
Brendan Von Doehren (37:13):
No, I would just say, appreciate the support out there from everybody for this. We're super-excited about it again from the PGA Tour standpoint, this is a long time coming. We think it can be exciting for a lot of others other than us that I mentioned earlier. So, good luck to the college players coming down the stretch here. The last eight weeks or so you're playing for a lot, but other than that, Aaron, thank you so much for having me on this. It's hopefully beneficial for everybody out there.
Aaron Goldberg (37:48):
Yeah, definitely. To our listeners, if you're watching us on YouTube, drop a comment or you can email me directly at agoldberg@awmcap.com if you have any questions. If you're watching it on Instagram or IGTV you can drop a comment there. We want to make sure that we're answering the questions that you have and getting the right feedback back to you. So happy to answer those questions if you have them. So Brendan, again, appreciate the time. Hopefully this is a great half an hour spent for the people listening and until next time, be a pro and own your wealth. Thanks a lot.