Brand Building Using NIL With Former MLB Pitcher Anthony Ranaudo | NIL Series #4
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Episode Summary
There are several questions that constantly come up when we are having conversations with athletes and business owners like:
What should a “deal” look like from both sides of the table?
How should an athlete think about branding themselves?
How are businesses utilizing their newfound ability to participate in NIL?
In this episode of AWM Capital’s Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) series, we are joined by Anthony Ranaudo. Anthony is a College World Series champion, 1st round draft pick, and former MLB player. Today, Anthony is the owner and founder of Cards and Culture, a store and social platform in the collectibles, art, memorabilia, and lifestyle business that is utilizing NIL deals to help promote his business and the athletes themselves.
Anthony has a unique perspective as both a business owner utilizing NIL, and a former professional athlete who understands the brand building opportunities that come with being a high-profile athlete.
In this episode, Anthony gives us an insight into what athletes should be thinking about in terms of building their brands through NIL opportunities. He and Will discuss the importance of building a network, understanding the marketplace, spotting the right deals, staying present and humble, and more.
Episode Highlights
1:50: Perspective on the evolution of NIL in the first year.
4:08: How Anthony is utilizing NIL for his business.
5:20: Ways for athletes to take advantage of the NIL opportunity.
7:40: General perception of NIL versus reality.
12:30: What roadblocks are currently present for businesses entering into the NIL space?
13:50: Business and athlete use of trademarks and logos.
15:45: How and why athletes build brands and networks as a college athlete.
21:35: Social media presence as a high school athlete.
25:20: What kind of deals should an athlete look to enter into?
28:25: The future of NIL and what the landscape will look like in the coming years.
31:25: The importance of educating yourself on how to best utilize NIL
Stay Connected
AWM Capital: IG | LinkedIn | Facebook | AWMCap.com
If you have any questions or would like to reach out to Will or Anthony directly, please email them at:
Anthony Ranaudo – Kylie@cardsandculture.com
Will McGuffey – WMcGuffey@AWMCap.com
+ Read the Transcript
Will McGuffey (00:11):
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of AWM Capital's NIL podcast. On today's show, we've got Anthony Ranaudo. I'll read off a couple of the things. He's a good friend of mine here in town, but his resume will speak for itself. All American at LSU, 2009 World Series champion on probably one of my favorite teams that I've ever watched on the college baseball side. He and I have talked about that a number of times. Just the chemistry and the way y'all played the game was fun to watch. 2010, first round draft pick, played the major leagues with a couple of organizations. Also played in Korea for the Samsung Lions. Anthony, welcome to the show. We appreciate you coming on here.
Anthony Ranaudo (00:49): Nah, dude. Thanks for having me. This is awesome. And yeah, you did a great job with the resume. Gas me up a little bit. That's nice. Thank you.
Will McGuffey (00:55): That's why I'm here, man. That's what a good host does, right?
Anthony Ranaudo (00:58): Exactly. Make me feel good before we start.
Will McGuffey (01:00): Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I'm excited to have you on here because the things that you bring to this space are creativity, passion, vision, and really this podcast series is about NIL looking at it from different perspectives. NIL fits a lot of what you have done in your career, what you're passionate about and what you're currently doing. And whenever we had the idea for this podcast, personally, I knew I immediately wanted to have you on here because you give a unique perspective and that's from one as a player that could have benefited from it while you were in college. But also two, as a person who's actually utilizing this as a business owner from the other side of the table today.
Will McGuffey (01:42): I mean, I guess give me first of all just your general thoughts about NIL and what you've seen in the last year since it's... Or less than a year since it's come out?
Anthony Ranaudo (01:52): I guess first and foremost was I was surprised how fast it happened. I think Cards and Culture, and the reason that I opened up a brick and mortar location kind of always was predicated on the fact that NIL was coming and I knew that this was going to be a thing. But when I opened my doors on July 1st, I thought I was going to have some time, and I thought it was going to take another year or two, something like that. But obviously the same day, it literally hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like, "Wow, this is real. It's here." So that was really interesting to me.
Anthony Ranaudo (02:23): So the first thing was how fast it came. And then as a business owner, I felt incredible pressure or stress. I guess like stress, I put on myself, but pressure to interact with these athletes and be a part of the NIL when I didn't even really know really all about it and the details, intricacies of that stuff. But it was just so loud and noisy, and marketing, right? The Barstool stuff.
Anthony Ranaudo (02:46): As a business owner, I was like, "Oh man, am I going to lose? Am I going to lose?" I knew I was a startup and I really didn't have a ton of money to inject into this stuff and give these kids... I didn't know if they were getting a hundred thousand dollars deals, million dollar deals or if it was store product and things like that. So I guess the education process of it all has been the most interesting and exciting for me.
Will McGuffey (03:05): Yeah. What about you? You mentioned Cards and Culture and you own a number of businesses, but I think that Cards and Culture is probably the one you utilize the most with NIL. Tell me a little bit more about what Cards and Culture is so we can start to educate our are fans and the people listening like, "Okay. This is what Anthony does. And then this is how he utilizes NIL."
Anthony Ranaudo (03:25): Yeah. So Cards and Culture is a brick and mortar, I call it a modern day collectible shop. But we do sports cards, memorabilia, art, sneakers, collectibles, all that kind of stuff. But the space is a community destination point kind of for a lot of these things that we're doing in the NIL space. We've had live art events. We've done popup shops with clothing and things like that. We've hosted sports events and watch parties and things like that for the Super Bowl. We're going to have some gaming nights in the shop.
Anthony Ranaudo (03:55): We've done panel talks and things like that. So with NIL, I invite people in for my podcast, a lot of the athletes, right? And those are a lot of the athletes that we're doing partnerships with where we're creating one of one memorabilia pieces, or we're creating clothing for them that's telling their story and kind of creating their personal brand. And just capturing this moment that they're on campus, right? For a lot of these guys and girls, this might be the most attention they have in their life. It might be the most important time of their athletic career, because unfortunately not everybody gets to go play at the next level. Right?
Anthony Ranaudo (04:27): So I'm trying to educate a lot of the kids on that, of taking advantage of the moment, appreciating the people that are around you and especially the LSU people. The fans are so passionate, so trying to educate kids from a perspective of somebody that's gone through it, played professionally and then has come back and understood that LSU, the fans and this opportunity that they have. NIL is just like a technology and a platform, I guess, to utilize a lot of the things that I want to implement with Cards and Culture.
Will McGuffey (04:54): As far as how you implement NIL, how are you utilizing this? You don't have to go into details about the actual deals and what the structure that looks like because you mentioned earlier, it's being defined, it's being evolved and there's probably some competitive and trade secrets in there. What kind of deals are you doing with some of these athletes, as far as like, hey, you mentioned one on one memorabilia or coming on a podcast. How else are you structuring these deals? And what are the opportunities for athletes like, not just for you, but also for other people as well that you're seeing?
Anthony Ranaudo (05:25): I think first and foremost for this stuff is I wanted to take care of the athletes. I wanted to educate the athletes, but also make them feel good about the work that they were doing and the things that I feel they deserve. Right? Especially in a college town, that's really important to me. So the things that we have done, we went the exact opposite of what Barstool was doing where they were just like, everybody's an athlete. We're giving everybody t-shirt and hats. I wanted to be more intimate and work with less athletes, but do more with them, get to know their families, get to know their stories, get to know what pushes them, what motivates them, what's made them successful, that kind of stuff. And then story tell through memorabilia pieces or merchandise or apparel or podcasting. And that's kind of what we do.
Anthony Ranaudo (06:09): So I sign a contract with the athletes, so they get the immediate gratification of signing bonus and that depends on their marketability and how many engagement and activity. I'm looking at this from a brand equity perspective of, I don't think I'm going to get rich off of this. I don't think I'm going to profit off of this. And actually the athletes take home 70% in most of my deals. 60 to 75%, depending on the athlete. What I wanted to do was teach athletes that it's about engagement with their fans.
Anthony Ranaudo (06:40): The more that they engage, the more that they promote their story, the more that they promote their t-shirt or their logo, whatever it is, the more that their fans are going to buy this and care about it and connect with them, right? And if they're getting a percentage of profit, the more that they talk about it, the more that they market, the more that they story tell the more that they're is going to increase. Right?
Anthony Ranaudo (06:58): So that's been my plan so far is where it's more collaborative and relationship building. And I think that's been great for the five or six athletes, seven athletes that we've partnered with. But I think as this stuff develops, I would like to get to a point where I have more athletes on board and I can pay them for set appearances, autograph signings, podcast things, video game appearances. Stuff that just gets a little bit more fun and dynamic for the athletes as well.
Will McGuffey (07:23): I think that most athletes coming in are saying, "Hey, this is a way for me to just make some money." Right? And that's probably the general perception of the public everywhere is, "Oh, this is just a way to make some money." But when you go back in there and you're talking to these athletes about building a brand, brand equity engagement, how has that been received by the athletes and what has changed from when they walk into that relationship and they're like, "Hey, it's about money until at the end"? What kind of feedback are you getting by the athletes that are participating and entering into deals with you?
Anthony Ranaudo (07:53): That's a great question. I think what I've learned too is for some athletes, it's not even about money anymore. It's about attention. It's about, Hey, I'm going to use this word clout, or whatever that people use, and chase or whatever. But it's really about attention. It's where people are paying attention to, right? Engagement, likes, shares, views. All these things matter. Those analytics matter to these kids. And that's the new currency, right? So that's what I've kind of embraced and enjoyed is understanding that about this generation and this culture that we're in.
Anthony Ranaudo (08:24): So I'm trying to equip them with things like that like, "Hey, how can you come on a podcast and it can give you high quality content? How can I get you in some high quality pictures and give you things to promote to your fans and stuff like that?" So I think it's been the education process too, of these, both on my part, but then also on that part of like, "Hey, what do you really want from this deal? I want to know, is it money in your pocket? Because you want to feed your family or do you want more followers? Do you want more engagement? What is it that you're looking for?" And then I kind of cater the plan to them, right? And kind of thinking about them.
Will McGuffey (08:54): You're almost stepping in like, "Hey, what are your priorities?" And becoming not just a partner, but a mentor in some way to these athletes.
Anthony Ranaudo (09:01): That's exactly it. I don't want to strip their creativity. I want them to critically think. I want them to have to adapt and figure out ways to create their brand. And that's kind of what I'm doing is tell me about yourself. Tell me what you're passionate about. Right? Because I don't want to have 20 athletes that I have to do all the marketing and storytelling and promotion for it. Right? "I want you to be involved. What excites you? What gets you going? What's going to get you on your phone and share this to social media? You know what I'm saying? Is it a video game? Is it Twitch stuff? Is it YouTube? Tell me." So that's kind of where I'm at with them. And I get to know them more on a personal level too.
Will McGuffey (09:35): Yeah. It's more fun to just collaborate and anytime you're working with somebody as long as there's that passion and that vision and it's a working together, it's probably beneficial to both sides of the story. Now, as far as like switching from the athletes a little bit to you, what have you seen? Have you seen a positive net benefit from your interactions with college athletes in the community? How has NIL helped your business? What are your thoughts around that?
Anthony Ranaudo (10:00): And my strategy behind it was, I kind of knew that I wasn't going to get a crazy ROI from 30, 40% profits from clothing and T-shirts and hats. It was more when I go to the basketball games or the baseball games, they're like, "Oh, that's a Cards and Culture guy. Hey, Cards and Culture." Things like that where people are just aware of it. It's brand equity. When I say brand equity is I want people to see the C&C or the Cards and Culture and be like, "Oh, that's that shop in Perkins Row that Darius Days is a partner with." Or, "Oh, I saw [Tiana Kathy 00:10:27] post about that shop. Yo, Kayla Porter wears your stuff." You know what I'm saying?
Anthony Ranaudo (10:32): It's just like I want the kids to show up to campus and be like, "Yo, who's Cards and Culture? We need to go there." Or these are the people that take care of us when we're a high level athlete and we care about the right things. We're here to tell stories and be passionate versus just take things and get attention.
Will McGuffey (10:51): Yeah. No, and it's funny. I took my daughter out to a beach volleyball term this weekend and I'm sitting there and we were watching from the top on one side at the beginning and I'm like, "Man," I was like, "Cards and Culture." You were on every single umbrella there. And you think about the number of impressions you're probably getting in that exact thought process of like, "Man, who is this? I see them everywhere." And also other events, I've seen you around. A lot of the basketball games. I'll see you there ripping some. It's probably a pretty good benefit and it's something that'll grow over time, and I think it'll be a good partnership for you because I think unlike a lot of businesses, a lot of businesses for me as you know... Or if I was an attorney and I'm going to hire somebody from the NIL side, it's kind of transactional, right?
Will McGuffey (11:36): The athlete doesn't probably doesn't care about as an attorney, what you do. They're just there more for the paycheck, but I think the way you're doing, I mean, your business is basically built around, it's called Cards and Culture, right? So it's built around this space of sports and culture, and identity, and social media, and how things are moving in this world. It's a different animal right now.
Will McGuffey (12:00): As roadblocks, this is so new and everybody on that we've had, we talk about how everything's evolving, how things are changing, issues you've seen whether it's David Fleshman from the legislative side and saying, "Hey, laws are changing." Or the compliance side saying, "Hey, rules are changing." NCAA is looking at this in a different way. Have you seen any roadblocks or anything that when you enter into a deal or you're going to try to enter into a deal with an athlete, anything popped up that you've seen, "Hey, man, this should be addressed or this has come up a couple of times?"
Anthony Ranaudo (12:33): Nothing specific to me, I don't think. I think that it's more planning in the future, I guess. Right? One of the things I want to do with Cards and Culture is raise some money or have a fund that we can pay these athletes and set it. But that creates a little bit of fear for me of, "Man, there's going to be so many changes over the next couple years." And if you get together a pool of investors or former athletes or whatever we want to do, and then rules change, that's a little unsettling for me.
Anthony Ranaudo (13:04): It's frozen me a little bit where I'm like, "Ah, do I push forward with this?" Because I don't have as much conviction in the things that are unknown. So that's really the only thing for me, because a lot of is really small level stuff. And I guess on that small level stuff, maybe just logo usage of corporations or LSU and things like that. So those were the biggest things like the hurdles in the beginning of just understanding.
Will McGuffey (13:26): That's what I was going to ask. I was going to ask about the marks. And is that something that if you're an athlete coming in, talk to you, do they handle utilizing the marks and or is that something that you set up with compliance on your own? You kind of handle that with the compliance of a university?
Anthony Ranaudo (13:40): Yeah. So I'm lucky I have a corporate sponsorship with LSU, so I have a good relationship with their sports properties team and a lot of things like that. So I do have some rights to use certain logos and since I am a corporate sponsor, we do get to use or keep the LSU like on their Jersey when we make graphics or posts or social media and stuff like that. So it was little things like that like, "Hey, I'm going to invest in this partnership with LSU because I know over the longevity of the contract, I'm going to be able to use these marks with the NIL, and the graphics, and the things that we want to promote.
Anthony Ranaudo (14:09): I knew I was going to be interviewing a lot of LSU athletes and I don't want to have to tiptoe around word verbiage all those things and stuff if you're in a bad place with LSU or something or a battle. Right? I felt like I did what I needed to do in a strategic partnership and investing in that relationship with LSU. They've been good to me and stuff like that. So I've been working with LSU and they've been really, really good to me and letting us use the marks.
Will McGuffey (14:32): That's easy because I mean, I've talked to some people about usage of marks, even usage of colors or pictures on campus and people are... There's different universities across the country and there are issues about what can be used and... Even the compliance departments, legally speaking, when we've gone back into research and aren't right all the time. And so you don't want to be wasting that time if you don't have to, whether you're the athlete or you're the business that's involved in this, you want to have the idea going in like, "Hey, this is going to be a pretty simple process."
Will McGuffey (15:03): I want to move back a little bit and I don't want to put you on the hot seat here, but you talked about building brands. You talked about helping these athletes. It's not just a simple transactional relationship. Give us ways that you think that athletes can help themselves build a brand and participate NIL whether it's through social media, whether it's community involvement. How could you say, "Hey, here's a playbook for building your brand"? What would you tell a college athlete day one when they come on a campus? Now, I know I got you.
Anthony Ranaudo (15:37): No.
Will McGuffey (15:37): It's pretty, pretty deep.
Anthony Ranaudo (15:38): It was a great question because there's so many things that I feel like I would say, but I think the first thing would be understand the definition of humility and a race kind of any entitlement that you have that people have conditioned and brainwash into you, and engage and connect with your fellow students, peers, athletes, coaches, business owners, and just be personable. I think one of the things that helped me in baseball that I could look back on is a lot of my teammates and coaches said I was a true professional. I think when I make a phone call nowadays, that gets me a lot of respect. That gets me a phone call. That gets me a conversation.
Anthony Ranaudo (16:16): I didn't do it for those reasons, it was just ingrained in me, and those were the things that I did. So I've just learned that. So I think when I was 18, 19 and 20 though, I think at LSU, I had this arrogance in this pumped up like I'm different than everybody because I'm going to be a first rounder and I'm going to play major league baseball.
Anthony Ranaudo (16:32): But if I really would've spent the time to engage with those fans while I was there... And again, this is what I'm saying is like I was brainwashed by an agent that I paid to trust who was telling me not to sign autographs because my autograph was going to be devalued over the next 20 years. Well, guess what? I didn't get 20 years in the major league. So that's what I would tell people is stop planning for the next 30 years, be present right now. Enjoy it. Do the things that feel good.
Anthony Ranaudo (16:56): It felt good to sign autographs and talk to the kids after the games. But my agent was telling me this stuff and I was brainwashed and then started believing it, reading the news, the media, all these things, when really what I actually enjoyed was connecting with the kids, the fans, the people. I just never had that experience in my life and I wanted it, but I was trusting people that I thought were telling me the right thing.
Anthony Ranaudo (17:15): So I would say, be present, enjoy this time. It's the most fun time of your life and your NIL partnerships and your money and your brand depend on your personality now too, and your marketability. There's a million athletes on campus. What separates people is marketability, communication, communication skills, social skills that go a long way.
Will McGuffey (17:34): I think you hit on a great point there and it's bringing back the humanity, and also the fact that you're saying, "Hey, look, I thought I was going to play in the big leagues for 20 years and it didn't happen." And 99% of college athletes are never going to play professional sports. I think one of the positives that I've seen from this is starting to build a community, build a network for yourself after college. NIL actually gives you the opportunity to do that now to start having conversations. And it might be something you're interested in, or it might just be going back to branding and people becoming aware of who you are.
Will McGuffey (18:10): But I think that's a net positive that we're seeing with NIL is it's not always about money. It's not always about those athletes that are going to go play professional sports forever. Because even the guys and ladies that do play professional sports, the vast majority of those. I mean, we know the numbers of guys that play in the big leagues that still have to go do a second career.
Will McGuffey (18:32): So they're going to have to rely on something. I think that's a great point of, "Hey, take a moment. Be present. Be a human being." What feels right is probably what is right for me in the long run when I want to go back and have to rely on somebody, because it's going to be those people who you made an impact on their lives, whether it was a child or whether it was an adult or a business owner and he had the opportunity to actually network while you were in college and meet people.
Will McGuffey (18:58): Because that's the other thing. I think it's unique. There are fortune 500 business owners right now that I would love to go have lunch with and sit down and pick their brain and say, "Hey, I'm interested in what you do. Let's talk about it." They don't care who I am now. But if I'm a college athlete and I played a university that's their alma mater, and they're interested in that? Guess what? They're interested in me, and I'm going to get an opportunity to go sit down and say, "Hey, yeah, let's grab lunch." And then all of a sudden it's like, "Look, I have a resume of kind contacts that I can build on." And people that you're going to want to knock on those doors later and they're not going to answer, but right now you've got that opportunity to move forward in getting to know all these people.
Anthony Ranaudo (19:43): That's exactly it. I think something really important that you said is building your network and that's what I think I was trying to say, but you said it a lot cleaner of like just by doing that, that's a byproduct, right? You're building your network by doing and connecting with those things, those businesses. And I think the kids nowadays in college have such an advantage if they're open to it, of learning about business from an earlier age and the same ways that companies came to me with equity plays when I was in the main major leagues you could potentially be part of a company that could be a startup or anything and have some equity in it. And that could sustain you for the rest of your life too.
Anthony Ranaudo (20:22): That's now an ability for a college athlete to have. Just that education part of it at 19 years old is way different. You know what I'm saying? That learning curve than when 24, 25, when you get to the major leagues or the NBA or NFL, and you've made some money now and you have this kind of stuff. So that's the exciting part for me is to see younger kids learn about business and true things that move business too.
Will McGuffey (20:47): What about taking it a step back further? I mean, we're talking about the college athlete now. What about the other amateurs, the high school athletes in cultivating social media presence. Because it's a dangerous world and I'm getting to that point. I've got young children. They're starting to want to be on social media. I think about it from the parent perspective, but also with NIL what I've seen in the [inaudible 00:21:12] there have been individuals who have cultivated social media followings, presence. Everything they've done has been very scripted, very branded and they've walked a very narrow path to present them in a certain.
Will McGuffey (21:27): And right now they're some of the most successful NIL athletes. What would you tell... And it's families for a lot of sports because a lot of times there aren't professionals that are involved in, let's just say a women's college basketball or a tennis player. I mean, I don't know some of these sports where there's not agents involved yet. Obviously baseball, there are. You have advisors that are starting to work with kids that are in high school. What would you tell these people? How would you go about cultivating your social media while you're in high school to possibly take advantage of some of these NIL opportunities? Does it even matter?
Anthony Ranaudo (22:05): I think it does. No, I think it does. And you're absolutely right. From a business perspective, it definitely matters. But I'm torn on that. I haven't had the experience of having kids, so I don't know what it's like being a... I don't know what it would be like having... I know what I would give advice to a kid, but it's not my child. So it's different. I think it's important, but I think there's got to be a healthy balance and I think the parents have to be in tune with the awareness that the child is having, if that makes sense.
Anthony Ranaudo (22:31): So I think that if the child is building it in a certain way, I think there has to be an education process coming from the person that's responsible for them. So I think that's first and foremost, but then after that, I think it's interesting. I think it's going to continue to evolve and I've really enjoyed seeing how some athletes are getting paid coming into school, just based on their following and stuff.
Anthony Ranaudo (22:54): I'm interested, anxious, nervous, excited to see how it evolves. I just hope that it doesn't get to a point like what you're saying is like, as soon as kids want to get on social media, they're only doing things to get followers, to get attention, to get likes and engagement and all that stuff. I think that if we can teach kids at an early age, why they're doing it and there's a purpose behind it, then it's okay.But I think that's a really fine line, and it takes a little bit of a mature approach to do that.
Will McGuffey (23:23): I think that's the scary thing about social media is I think of... I think social media and the business context, I understand what it's there for. And I'm not a huge proponent of it in general, because it does go to that point where it's all about likes, it's all about cloud. It's all about which is fine when you're utilizing that in a professional atmosphere. But if you're a young child and you're in middle school or high school, and that's how your brain starts to work, I think there's a negative side to social media. So that's the thing that scares me as a parent. You're 15 years behind me on that, but it's a lot of those things that you'll see. It's scary.
Anthony Ranaudo (24:01): I got nieces and nephews and my nephew was 16 years old or 15 and he came and spent the summer with me. I'm watching his mannerisms, and his life is shaped by the things that go on, on the phone. And I'm just like, damn, it's a scary time. It is. They do things based on-
Will McGuffey (24:17): Not live being present.
Anthony Ranaudo (24:18): Exactly. And they do things behavior wise based on the way that it's going to engage on social media and that's the place that gets me frightened in that sense.
Will McGuffey (24:28): I'm a college athlete, or let's just go back to you. You're a college athlete, Anthony, and I want to approach you with a deal. What kind of deals are you looking at taking? Are you going to take every deal that comes your way? Or are you going to say, "Hey man, I've got this vision of things that are important to me." Tell me what you would do as far as accepting deals, not accepting deals. How would you formulate that playbook?
Anthony Ranaudo (24:50): I think it would have to come from a place of like who are my trusted people with me? And let's make these decisions. But I think it would come from a place of awareness too. If I were a local... Let's use Austin Bain as a great example to me. Guy had an opportunity to play a pro ball, but he kind of had an awareness of like, "Man, I don't know if that's my thing. I don't know if it's realistic. I'm a Baton Rouge kid. I love LSU. I just want to make most of my time."
Anthony Ranaudo (25:14): If I were him, I'd be like, "Dude, do every deal that you can, that you can align with that aligns with your vision, morals." As long as it's not anything that's crazy, I would tell that kid to do as much as he can.
Anthony Ranaudo (25:24): Now, Dylan Cruz who's whose career path is a little different, I would say, "Let's be a little bit more selective." There's a different opportunity and a different value proposition for that type of player in the long run. And for me with that kid, I would say let's zoom out and have some perspective and let's be a little bit more choosy with the deals and endorsements that come through because we don't want to keyhole ourselves into something. We don't want to align with a brand that may go in a different direction, the future, right?
Anthony Ranaudo (25:52): So I think the attention to detail for the player who is going to play at the next level and is looking to brand themselves in a certain way, is a little different than maybe the local player who understands, "Man, this is a great opportunity for me to network, to grow. Maybe I'll even take a deal where there's no money or product involved, but I know it might open up a door in the future." I would tell that kid to go do everything that he can, that makes sense for him and his family.
Will McGuffey (26:13): That makes a lot of sense. The problem for me is I thought I was going to play in the big leagues and I would've messed up that one badly.
Anthony Ranaudo (26:20): That's why it starts with self-awareness right? You can't be delusional on be like, "I'm the 52nd guy on the football team and I'm going to play 15 years in NFL." That's a cool concept. It might get you through your drills and everything. But when it's business, let's have some self-awareness. Let's get some perspective from people outside of your own dome. You know what I'm saying? And be like, "Where am I at?"
Will McGuffey (26:38): I had no self-awareness. I had four arm surgeries and I was still like, "Dude, I'm 24 and I'm a 17th year sophomore. I'm ready to pitch in the big leagues tomorrow." Zero self-awareness, dude.
Anthony Ranaudo (26:47): I think all of us had that at some... We all get to that level because of that, at least at some point. Right?
Will McGuffey (26:53): Yeah. I think it's confidence.
Anthony Ranaudo (26:55): Yeah, exactly.
Will McGuffey (26:55): And then just drive and desire. I mean, that's still what today as an adult, that drive and desire to succeed is what... If I didn't have that in my everyday life, I don't know what I would be doing. I have to have that. That's a competitive nature of being an athlete. And I know the same thing. You and I have had a lot of conversations and talk about just life in general, business in general, and I think that's what keeps people like us going is that desire to keep going.
Will McGuffey (27:23): Well, let me ask you this. What about as far as... And this is a loaded question because there is no right answer. The evolution of NIL. I know we've seen it within the first year. There has been a lot of evolution. Where do you think this thing goes? What does this look like in five years? What does this look like in 10 years? Is it still a hot topic or do you think it fades to the back a little bit?
Anthony Ranaudo (27:44): I think it just becomes a way of life. And I think it just becomes... Overtime, certain companies, and businesses, and brands and things like that will get known for being involved in the college sports just like the way that certain brands are in professional sports and all that stuff. So I do believe that we'll get to a point that athletes have agents and or advisors in college marketing agents and things like that. And they're coming into college with endorsement deals or something like that.
Anthony Ranaudo (28:12): I mean, just from Cards and Cultures perspective, if things stay the way they are, I would love to get to a point that every year I'm picking and choosing eight sports teams and I'm going to pick and choose a couple players and they're going to go through my board of advisors and we're going to decide how much we're going to contractually pay them for X amount of appearances, the rights to use name, image, and likeness on hats and t-shirts where we keep all the profits and autograph signings and things like that.
Anthony Ranaudo (28:39): But they're just getting a straight paycheck every month. And they know for that paycheck, it includes an autograph signing at Cards and Culture and appearance at Walk-On's for a podcast with Walk-On's owner and Anthony Ranaudo. Things like that where it just involves them in the community. It requires them to do things and they get paid. And just basically creates like a contractual situation. I think it's going to evolve into recruiting and that's going to affect where kids want to go to school based on how much money they can make in one and done kids for college basketball or three years for a baseball football player or a kid that's going to be like, "Man, I'm going to milk this and I'm going to take a red shirt my first year and I'm going to be there for five years." whoever it is. Right?
Will McGuffey (29:19): Yeah. No, I agree. That's pretty interesting concept. I mean, I think the thing that scares me a little bit is I think it does shift over recruiting and athletes become more aware of like, "Hey, I can..." Let's just be honest. There's certain universities that have bigger business clout or far reach, and I think that it's going to affect recruiting pretty, pretty big in the next couple of years.
Anthony Ranaudo (29:47): Texas A&M having the biggest recruiting or the best recruiting class in the last seven or eight years has been one school and not...
Will McGuffey (29:53): I think I have to professionally say no comment. I think what I have to say in regard to that.
Anthony Ranaudo (29:59): Right.
Will McGuffey (30:00): So no comment is my legal response to that. But I'm sure we'll talk about that another day. Well, Anthony, look, I appreciate you coming on here. This has been great. I think that there's a lot that our listeners can learn, whether you're the athlete, whether you're a family member, agent, whoever it might be. Do you have any parting shops, any words of wisdom, last nugget that you want to leave with the people that listen to this podcast?
Anthony Ranaudo (30:26): I think for me, like you said, families and parents, this is a very new experience and time. And there's a lot of information. So I would say, ask questions, listen to podcasts, educate yourselves, build your trusted people and ask questions. Don't be afraid to communicate. This is all freely new. And no question is dumb, right? And especially when you're trying to make decisions about your son or daughter's career or help them navigate through this time, the more questions are better.
Anthony Ranaudo (30:56): I field a lot of questions from a lot of the athletes, parents that care about, "Hey, taxes, right? How are we doing in income taxes? Are you sending me..." All these things. There's a ton of things that now go into this whole thing. So ask questions, align yourself with the right people. That's the way where I would say.
Will McGuffey (31:12): I feel like that was almost a boy scout answer, be prepared. Right? That's their motto.
Anthony Ranaudo (31:16): Yeah. Something like that.
Will McGuffey (31:18): Well, Anthony, I really appreciate it. And for all of our listeners out there, go take a look at this show notes. Also, we'll have Anthony's contact information, my contact information at the bottom of the notes. So if there's any questions, anything y'all want to touch on in future series, or if you want to reach out to us directly and just say, "Hey, you talked about this and I want to touch base, or I want to learn here, do you know something?" Please reach out to us. This podcast series is for y'all, so utilize it and we're here to help you. So, Anthony, once again, we really appreciate it and we'll look forward to our next step. So thank you.
Anthony Ranaudo (31:52): Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate you letting me come on.
Will McGuffey (31:55): Absolutely, man. Well, see you soon.