Athlete CEO #48: Pushing Against Perfection | Coach Dar
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Episode Summary
As an elite performer you’ve worked hard to get where you’re at. The work to stay at the top comes with immense pressure and a grind to continually improve. Also, success can make it hard to get clear, direct feedback, and it can attract people who don’t have your best interests in mind.
How do you continue to reach for greatness without folding to the pressures of perfectionism? How can you work to build an inner circle of people with your best interests in mind – who can give you direct and candid feedback that will help you get better at what you do?
Today we’re joined by Darleen Santore – also known as Coach Dar. She is a board-certified occupational therapist, business owner, and performance coach for professional athletes and executives.
Coach Dar was recently named a senior fellow at PathNorth, an organization comprised of leaders and CEOs of fortune 100 companies, the WNBA named her the Most Inspiring Woman of 2017, she is the U.S. Ambassador for Pay It Forward Day, and she recently launched her own social platform called Kindli, which puts the focus squarely on kindness and positivity with a goal to generate over a billion acts of kindness around the world.
Coach Dar discusses with Erik and Brandon about how to define greatness, what it means to be a pro, dealing with the pressures of perfection, and surrounding yourself with people who will help you grow.
Episode Highlights:
(00:08) More about Coach Dar
"The thing about greatness and being great, everyone has the ability to reach greatness within them with the God-given talent they have, but few are willing to truly do what it takes to be that truest and best version of themselves." – Coach Dar
(4:22) How to define greatness
(5:14) “Being a pro does not mean perfection. It means 1% progress. Every day you’re back – being consistent and disciplined to do what you need to do to be the best.” – Coach Dar
(5:49) What holds people back from greatness?
(7:36) What are the practical steps to committing to the process and implementing a plan
(9:42) Finding the right help
(11:49) The science of occupational therapy
(18:27) Why aren’t people working with performance coaches?
(20:25) How Tom Brady and LeBron James got where they are
(21:09) Why working with a peak performance coach doesn’t mean something is wrong with you
(24:00) Dealing with the pressure of perfection
(26:11) “I'm going to help you find your whypower over willpower. Your willpower is going to give up when you're going through a tough season, right? You can't lean on willpower every day, but I'm going to remind you - why'd you get up?” – Coach Dar
(27:27) The importance of reframing
(30:06) Getting direct feedback
(32:52) Building your trusted inner circle
(38:32) Cutting down your circle
(41:35) One of the key questions to ask in close relationships
Stay Connected
Coach Dar: LinkedIn | Website | Instagram
AWM Capital: IG | LinkedIn | Facebook | AWMCap.com
+ Read the Transcript
Erik Averill (00:08): Hey everyone. Welcome back to The Athlete CEO Podcast. I'm your host, Erik Averill. And I am joined by my co-host and brother, Brandon Averill. We are the co-founders of AWM Capital, where we partner with our clients to unlock the full potential of their wealth for maximum impact. And one of the things that we believe at AWM is that your human capital is the greatest driver of your net worth and therefore your impact. And so this podcast, The Athlete CEO Podcast, is all about bringing you the tools, the tactics, and access to world-class experts to help you unlock your full potential. And so today we have the privilege to sit down with Darleen Santore more prominently known as Coach Dar. Dar is a board-certified occupational therapist, she is a business owner, she's a performance coach for professional athletes and executives and her resume is just incredible.
Erik Averill (01:13): And so she was recently named a senior fellow at PathNorth, an organization comprised of leaders and CEOs of fortune 100 companies, 2017 WNBA names you the most inspiring woman, just an incredible obviously award to have. You're the U.S. Ambassador for Pay It Forward Day, and you recently launched your own social platform, Kindli, which puts the focus squarely on kindness and positivity and no small feat, the goal is to generate over a billion acts of kindness around the world. And so from your experience as an occupational therapist, to healthcare executive, to one of my favorite things on your resume, chief operating officer of a record label. So, we got to dig into that, but then as you're a performance coach to CEOs and athletes, you obviously have a proven track record, and this is going to be an absolute gift to you. The audience I know it is. For Brandon and I, so thank you for being here and welcome to the podcast.
Coach Dar (02:18): Thanks for having me. This is one of the most fun things that I get to do. Actually, I love everything that I do, but I love sharing. If there's a little nugget or a piece of wisdom that helps someone go forward, that's the pay it forward. Essentially, if you hear something might just hear it a little bit differently, that kind of sets your mindset up so that you can then propel forward, this is great. And the fact that you have this podcast so that people can get this knowledge and wisdom from all sorts of people everywhere. That's a gift. So thanks for doing this too.
Erik Averill (02:49): Of course. Yeah. Thanks for being here. And we talk a lot about the importance of being a whole human and we're going to get to dig into that. An interesting place I want to start, and there's usually not a lot of great stuff that I find on social, it's complete noise and mostly the messages is like, "Don't get off social." However, your Instagram posts where I want to start, and I'm going to read it so I don't butcher it is, you recently said, "The thing about greatness and being great, everyone has the ability to reach greatness within them with the God-given talent they have, but few are willing to truly do what it takes to be that truest and best version of themselves."
Erik Averill (03:31): You go on to quote Stephen Smith that says, "Many people in theory want to be great. In fact, 2,400 people search how to be the best, looking for discreet answers on how to get from zero to one, yet many people in life realistically, do not want to put in the effort over a sustained period of time to actually get to one. They're looking for the secrets to success that in many ways do not exist." And so our audience has made up of professional athletes, it's founders, it's doctors, a lot of people that have incredible talent, and they're trying to be the best in the world at what they do and their specific craft, simply they want to be great. And so, I would love to start there because you're very direct in here. A lot of people want it, not a lot of people are willing to do what it takes. How do you define greatness? I would just love to start the conversation there.
Coach Dar (04:22): Well, I love that you just read that because I was fired up before... This is where I wrote that before the Super Bowl started, everyone obviously is in the search. And I even said, "You're about to watch two great teams with two great quarterbacks and regardless how the score goes, the fact that they got there is great, but they are consistent in what they do." And I oftentimes, even when I do keynote speeches, I'll say, "Who's your favorite athlete?" And people yell out their name and I'll say, "Yeah." And if that person doesn't do exactly what you want on fourth and one and if they lose your booing them, you're taking them down. You're like, "Blah, blah, blah." And so I'll say, "But yet you don't have that same standard for yourself. You're a pro in your life, aren't you?" And if you're not, why aren't you trying to be the best? Why do we just have that to be like, "Oh, well, when you're in sports, you're the pro."
Coach Dar (05:14): No, you both are the pro at what you do. You work every day to be the best at it. You read, you learn, you engage with other people. We should be a pro at our health, we should be a pro at our relationships. And again, being pro, since I work with athletes and coach them does not mean perfection. Obviously you want to be the best, we do, it means 1% progress. Every day you're back being consistent and disciplined to do what you need to do to be the best. And I always say, if God brought us here and we woke up today, our thank you back is how we live this day, which should be with everything that we have.
Coach Dar (05:49): We don't know when we're going, why won't we want to be the best. And it would be like, imagine if I said, "Hey, do you want to sign up for a mediocre relationship, a mediocre job, do you want to have mediocre team?" You'd be like, "No." "And do you want a mediocre coach?" "No." No, you don't. But yet you're only bringing in 50% every day. So why aren't you giving more? What is it? What's holding you back? It's usually that discipline, the why, why? You're missing out on why you're doing it. You might be in the wrong area. Maybe you have to shift something, but to be great, everyone wants to be great. Especially with social media, like Instagram, it's like, "Oh, I want to have this lifestyle. I want to do this." It's like, whatever you see that, but you're not getting up and trying every day.
Coach Dar (06:33): And when you look at Tom Brady or you look Patrick Mahomes, or here we are in Phoenix, obviously, one of my favorite humans is Devin Booker. He's amazing, but he's consistent. He is consistent every single day in what he does. Greatness has patterns and there is consistency and with that, but people don't want to do it. First of all, do you think anyone needs to buy another health book ever about how to be healthy? No. We need to move. We need to watch what we put in our body. We need to do recovery. It's very simple, but we still need help with it.
Coach Dar (07:08): And listen, I still have a trainer. My dad's had me lifting since I was in eighth grade in our basement. Literally it was this, I know everything that you need to do, but I still need coaches around me to keep pushing me. And that's the whole thing the greats understand. They understand in theory, but we're humans and you know what our brain likes to do? Revert backwards. So we have to have people around us that are going to push us because they know what greatness is within us with the gift we have and they help us achieve it.
Brandon Averill (07:36): I think that's great. I'm curious to know, what is that shift in mindset, right? We talk a lot about mindset. You got positive mindset, you've got neutral mindset depending on how you look at things, but certainly having a coach makes things easier to get out of whatever mindset you're in and propel you forward. But I would love to know there's so many of our clients, people that we talk to that are still realizing the power of a coach, but also think they're great. It may be shielded by talent, we joke most athletes are emotionally stunted, I know we were, probably still are, if you ask our wives, but how do you actually make that leap and say, "You know what? I'm committed. I'm going all in on this. I know I need a plan." What's that process look like?
Coach Dar (08:22): Sometimes it takes some kind of setback that... People are either inspired to go by change, they are inspired to change through the right pain or by motivation, something inspires them to go. So when you say, how do you get people. Well, usually I'll find someone. When an athlete reaches out to me, maybe the season wasn't the best they wanted to, and they're like, "I know what I have within me. And I need help with my mindset. And I just want to make sure I get that edge. I want to be consistent. Can you help me with it?" It might be someone who's like, "I am so close to where I want to be, but I know in order to get there, I need it." They have this drive all ready. Then there's sometimes where people have had an injury, a setback, something happened maybe even in their life, out of balance, whatever's happening and they're going, "I don't want to repeat the pain that I just felt. So if I don't get help, I'm not going to be able to go forward." Because we know what the definition of insanity is.
Coach Dar (09:16): Yet. We keep seeing people do that over and over. And you're like, "Oh, how many times are we going to hit the brick wall before we make a change here?" So that's usually... It's one or the other and you know what, either is okay, because we learned from everything. So as long as you have that aha moment come to you and maybe it's this podcast today, maybe it's someone going, "I've been thinking about it." Well, this is your sign. By the way, if you're here, you need it. You all need it. We all need it.
Coach Dar (09:42): We all need it. We literally all need someone to help us. And that has been there, that has done it, that's worked with people around it. You don't just want to find anyone on social. I'm so passionate about this. It is literally like, "Oh, they’re Instagram famous." What does that mean? What are their credentials? Who've they helped. Have they actually done this? What is their story? Because this is your life that you're dealing with, you don't just want, because one celebrity they got to help. No, is it thousands of people they helped? Because you're working with someone you want them to have helped other people reach their peak.
Erik Averill (10:22): Yeah-
Coach Dar (10:22): It's important.
Erik Averill (10:23): It's incredibly important, that's why I pointed out, when we introduced you board-certified occupational therapist, because we see it in our world as the term you can use, just generic terms. Financial advisor, well, what does that mean? Do you actually have the knowledge?
Coach Dar (10:40): Right.
Erik Averill (10:40): Do you have the skill?
Coach Dar (10:41): Right.
Erik Averill (10:41): And do you have the expertise and track record of improving people's lives and the thing about our audiences, think about your own career, professional athlete, doctor, right? You don't just show up and cut somebody open, there's a whole training program, right? As a professional athlete, it's very difficult to be the best in the world at what you do. There's a huge separation between the semi-pro and the amateur in the professional and I think to your point, I would love for you to demystify this conversation of life coach, because it's so important I think as we get into it as athletes, or as founders, we do want peak performance, but a lot of times it's like, "I don't know who to trust because this person just became a life coach." And you're like, "Based off their life, I don't want their coaching." So can you just talk... And in one of your former podcasts, you said, "Hey, it's really important that I have the science behind what I do." Occupational therapists was the original life coach. Can you just expand on that for us?
Coach Dar (11:49): First of all, I just want to hug you both, because I am so passionate about this. Because I really... One, I really feel that I was called into this space and I love to serve and help people. It's why... I saw my grandfather have a stroke and when I was 16 and when I made that decision, I once said, I want to go and be... This occupational therapist who walked in, she was looking at his cognition, she was looking at his vision, she was looking at his pattern, she was helping them physically and mentally try to get back to a new normal. And that just opened my world. Went an obviously, and got trained in that, worked at an amazing hospital. It was where Christopher Reeves came. It was where the most challenged of challenged unfortunately, people came in from major accidents. I mean, literally amputations and some of their brain removed.
Coach Dar (12:40): And we had to overcome the most extreme odds. When they were told they would never make it again. So I say all that always in the beginning, because I'm trained in neuro, I'm trained in mental health mindset, all of it. And at extreme high level cases where you have to help people find that will to keep going, understand cognitively, how to help them, understand also from all the mental and physical challenges and create in minutes a plan and know how to handle it. It's crisis intervention at its highest level and then peak performance, right? That is a setup, which I didn't realize was a gift. And then I went into leadership, went back to school for business, and I married together the ability to take science, psychology, and leadership, and then spiritual, where I can in faith, because I honestly think faith is like Red Bull, it gives you wings.
Coach Dar (13:30): So by whatever it is, I'm telling you that your extra wing's there, I want to make a t-shirt on, anyone want to help? But in that... What happens is people don't understand that when someone just goes and gets a random online certificate and calls themselves a life coach, and this doesn't mean that there's not good people out there in the space doing it, but unfortunately it's been so watered down. And what does that actually mean? That might be mean someone helping you, guiding you in questions to guide decisions in your life. Like what kind of career might you want to take? Where do you want to go with certain things? That's all fine on that kind of level. Now we go to the pros, we go to, you're a top surgeon at a hospital, you're running a fortune 100 company.
Coach Dar (14:20): Do you know how to handle that kind of pressure? What are the decisions are you going to make? How do you handle... What is the anxiety mean? What is the pressure mean? What is loneliness mean? Actually, what is the brain doing during these certain states? A life coach is not equipped necessarily to handle those levels of situation. That is not their fault, that's just their level of training. Okay. So you need to understand where you are in this space and who you're aligning with. If there are certain things that you need a life coach with that you're understand parameters, sure, they could help you with that. But when it gets to the big leagues and it gets to certain things, and you need someone who understands everything, this 360 approach, that's what I'm trained in.
Coach Dar (15:04): And it started when the soldiers came out of war. They... Okay physically, they got them better, but then, okay, well, you just got to engage back in family life, you've got to engage back in life. How do you handle all these situations? No one had any idea. That's a lot of this started. And then the training, well beyond that has been later on. And then I just took this, it's just normal to me. So when I sit with someone, whether they're on a court, on the ice, on the field, or they're about to go into surgery and it's something high pressure, that doesn't bother me at all. And I could get people to come and bring that emotional neutrality and bring that moment where they're in the present moment and you own this, you've got this, those buzzer beater shots, that clutch moment, it's the ninth inning, and it's your... Especially your the closer of a pitcher too and it's on you right now. We need to close this out or the play that you're going to do.
Coach Dar (15:59): All those moments, we could get there mentally. We could mentally get you there, we could get you prepared, we could give you the skills so that you know how to show up better. And by the way, it doesn't mean every performance is going to be great, it just means I'm going to help you rebound faster, give you that resilient mindset, figure out how to handle information so that all of it is something you could collect as data. I mean, what do we know in sports? Everything is analytics, right? And then how to handle the emotions of it. Without becoming emotionally numb and still striving for that greatness too because they still want you... Feeling emotions is still good. What do you do with them?
Coach Dar (16:37): So it's kind of a long-winded way to say, there is definitely a very big difference in just a life coach versus the type of therapist and mental skills coach that I am and after 25 years of doing this, I've helped over a hundred thousand people. And I look at patterns and you want someone who's been in the depths of this from both the extreme cases to then the peak states and all of it in between, because I could just pull from a lot of scenarios, and that's what I would say when you're going to work with someone, make sure they have the depth of experience because they know all the scenarios. There's very few things that people will come to me where I'll be like, "What in the world?" That never, I'm like, "Okay, what are we going to do about it?"
Erik Averill (17:24): Yeah. And one of the things you hit on there that I think is so important, we had just read recently is. Unfortunately, a lot of times what we'll do is we'll study one specific person who happens to be this outlier, right? So, and I love the Mamba mentality. I love Kobe Bryant's shtick, right? He's also like the outlier, right?
Coach Dar (17:46): Absolutely.
Erik Averill (17:46): He's the 1% of the 1%, which is incredible so there's things to learn, but it's more the patterns, right? Studying what are the patterns of all high performers of having that clarity around it? And one of the things that you hit on that has just become so enlightening to the two of us, so we come from strategy is as owning a business, we also are certified financial planners. So we're trained in planning and strategy. What I understand is a lot of times our athletes, they'll enter in an off-season and they're executing certain things. "Yeah, I'm doing my nutrition. I'm going to my strength coach. And I'm doing some of these things."
Erik Averill (18:27): They don't understand why. And there's no real plan or strategy of talking this holistic thing. And then we do this cool exercise with some of our clients as we say, okay, what are the pillars of performance? Nutrition, strength, and conditioning. We call it peak performance because say mental, that side spins everybody. But then there's actually the skillset of performing your activity. And there's a ranking of these in it's where I want to get to is, most of the time everybody always says, "You have to actually be able to do the skill and then it's mental." And then we ask this follow-up question. "So who's the authority in that pillar that you're working with to help you be exceptional?" Crickets. So I would just love for you to demystify, why are people not working with performance coaches? And yeah, just let's just answer that. Why aren't they working with performance coaches? Because the biggest mistake we're seeing is everybody says it's the most important, but nobody's putting it front and center.
Coach Dar (19:33): I'm giving you another hug, virtual hug here. That's a great question. So a couple of things happen is, I love that you asked the question because it's going to make them think, why are they not? And a couple of reasons come to mind that I see this consistently as one, sometimes they're like, "Well, I know I need it, but I actually don't want to use my money for that." Right? It really comes down to, "I don't know if I should pay for that." Because if the team's not paying, that means you're paying and they're used to the team paying, right? But one of the things is the great athletes, they build their own team. So that is their own personal trainer, their own personal chef, well, then you need to have your own peak performance coach, mental skills coach that's there. So a couple of players, I meet with their financial advisor and their financial advisor's like, "Yes, this is an ROI investment that is literally going to get you that next big contract."
Coach Dar (20:25): And so they sometimes have to just understand the value and why they need to have this member on their team. And then the other part... Because I want to say, "You'll pay thousands of dollars for a t-shirt, but you want that next big contract, we better fill your mindset and your peak performance skills so that you can get that because you're going to need that money to get that t-shirt." Let's just be clear on that. So where's your value based. We got to understand your values. We've got to shift your mindset on where you value things and that's got to be your top priority. You know Brady valued? He has this. You know what LeBron has? This. They value this, so they put their money and their time and their effort into it because they know the ROI on it. That's going to come. So that's one.
Coach Dar (21:09): The other thing is sometimes people don't do this because they're like, "Well, if I do this and then maybe my performance isn't great." Now they're going to say, "This doesn't really work." And then is there something wrong with me? Is there actually something wrong with me that I need this? No, this doesn't mean something's wrong when you go to work on your peak performance, it's how you get better. And so I think sometimes people go to that part of, there must be something wrong with me if I need this. Absolutely not. If you have a trainer for physical, does that mean there's something wrong with your body? No, it's because you want to get it stronger. Well, mental skills and peak performance, the whole mindset is because you want to get it stronger.
Coach Dar (21:51): You have to do your mental reps every single day if you want to keep it consistent. We can't just go to the gym and be like, "Once a month. All right, I'm good people. I'm cardiac good, my muscles are strong." It's not going to work. Well, that's the same with the mindset, if you don't put the mental reps in and you don't have that person on your team and the other part of this too, in what I do, it's a safe, confidential space to have an outlet. If you don't have that outlet and I'm not just talking family members, you have to have this outlet that someone's also skilled to help you reframe, redirect, restart that mindset so you could play that next game. So you could show up to the boardroom, so you could be the best that you're doing at whatever it is.
Coach Dar (22:35): And that's another key and people don't realize this. So we've got... That's why I'm glad to have come on today just to reframe what it means to have that peak performance coach and why it's so valuable and why people need to be investing in this more, now more than ever. And the where we are in the world, everyone should be putting more in their investment in themselves for their mindset and their peak performance, because it's how you're going to rebound faster and get out of this and be able to get through this thriving, not just surviving.
Brandon Averill (23:05): I think that's such an important point. One thing you hit on earlier was perfection. I think this is something that so many athletes, so many entrepreneurs, people you've got this outward appearance, right? Everybody thinks you've got some level of success or you should have that mindset. You've been successful playing... You've got a six-year major career, you don't get there without some level, but in the background, I know so many guys are struggling and when we just heard, the Drew Robinson story. I mean, how heartbreaking that is and now he's using that to change a lot of people, but we go to these things and I guess, if somebody makes this decision, I thought it was really important and I'd love to hear you expand on it, working with somebody that knows and has seen it because I can guarantee the swath of people that we talked to, nobody is completely unique in the issues that they're dealing with.
Brandon Averill (24:00): There are... You are not the only guy that punches out for the third time and comes back and is wondering if you're getting released or getting sent down. You're not the only guy that is lined up over a - if you miss the cut and you don't get to play this next week. So I'd just love to hear, the people that are out there struggling with those issues, what do you tell them? How do you work them through that process? How do you lead them to the decision that there is no stigma around this? That it's peak performance gained to the next level, but it's also dealing with this perception they need to be perfect.
Coach Dar (24:38): Well, I'll just say this, Derek Jeter would say, all the time, especially playing at the Yankees, I had to literally interview for my job every day, every time I got on the field. So you can imagine what pressure came with that, but he learned how to make that work for him, not against him. And that there's not a person, if they were being truly honest, that didn't doubt themselves. No matter who it was at some point, we all get into a situation where we're like, you just start to doubt a little bit, or a game is off, or your day is off, you're just thrown off.
Coach Dar (25:11): And what you have to say is, everyone's going to go through a law, it's just, how do we get through that to keep going the next day? Where do we refuel? If you have anxiety, if you're dealing with... And it doesn't even have to be depression, but you're just feeling sad. You're just feeling off. You're like, "I woke up this morning. It's not there." And then some days you wake up and you're like, "I'm juiced. This practice went great. I felt it in the game." You're on fire, on momentum. And then all of a sudden you're like, "Where'd that go?" Then the momentum went and you're like, "Oh, something wrong with me?"
Coach Dar (25:42): No. And I just want to remind, you realize not everyone wins the Super Bowl. Not everyone wins the World Series. Not everyone... There are people that have played their career, never won the Stanley Cup, does that mean that they're bad? No, you're not going to hit a home run every time. A majority of the time, you're not, right? But do you love... Let's go back to, if I'm going to help shift someone, do you love this? Do you love what you're doing right now?
Coach Dar (26:11): And if you forgot that passion, let's bring that back. Let's remember why you did because I'm going to help you find your whypower over willpower. Your willpower is going to give up when you're going through a season, right? Or you're even going through and you're running a company right now and right now where we are, you might be hitting that COVID wall, where like, "Darn, this is hard." You can't lean on willpower every day, but if I'm going to remind you, why'd you get up? In part of my story, I had three strokes. The last one was just two years ago, it was the worst of all of them. But every day I got up, I'm like, "Why am I here? Well, I'm here to awaken greatness." That's what I... Everyday when I... How can I wake in greatness in someone's life?
Coach Dar (26:50): And I also know God needs me to use the gift He gave me to do his work to help a life. That's all I need to get up. So even in my toughest days and I do this work, I'll go, "Why am I doing this?" No different than I tell the athlete. "Tell me why." When the Suns... They're doing so great, I'm so proud of them, but in one of the seasons where they were in last place, how do you get someone who's in last place who's not going to playoffs to get up and still give their best, right? You're like, "Hey, why are you doing this? Who are you playing for?" Because someone is coming to take a position no matter where we are, right? So you got to keep striving. You got to be your best, but you got to connect to your why.
Coach Dar (27:27): Then we reframe the situation. Hey let's reframe this. It might be a bad day. Might be a bad season. It's not a bad life. And it's not a bad career. You got to reframe this and shift your perspective because you're talking yourself right out of this. One time I had a player that got done playing and he came and he's like, "Dar," he said... I can't say the swear word, but basically he was saying his performance was awful. "I'm terrible." He didn't say terrible, he said much worse. And he kept his like, "I'm terrible." And I'm like, "Oh really? You're terrible." I'm like, "I don't think you're terrible. Let's reframe that. You get two more seconds to talk about this. That you're terrible, and then we're reframing it." And I said, "Are you in the pros?" He's like, yeah, "I go". "So do you really think you're terrible?"
Coach Dar (28:07): And he's like, "Well, I'm just saying that, that was terrible." "Okay. The play today was not optimal. You are not terrible." So you help people get back into the rhythm, they get them out of these patterns that we... By the way, we all do this, the stuff that we say to ourselves, we would never say to someone out loud. Imagine telling your friend, I can't say certain words, "You stink. You're the worst person. Did you see your performance tonight?" I would never say that to someone. But yet we could say that to ourselves. No. So you got to teach the mind how to reframe this.
Coach Dar (28:42): You got to connect to your why you've got to reframe, you got to shift your perspective. And then you got to say, "Okay, I just got to show up one more day, one foot in front of the other." I need momentum to start to get on your side of coming back. And the people that we talk about, the greats, the ones that didn't give up. The ones we're not talking about that we don't even know their names, they gave up. I don't know who they are. And I'm sad that they gave up. Because everyone like we started this conversation, I need everyone to understand you have greatness within you, within the gift you have. And the difference of good to great is those that are consistent and work at it and those that aren't.
Erik Averill (28:45): Cool. So that reminds me, I was literally just having a conversation a few weeks ago with Shane Doan, who obviously incredible person here in the Valley and what he did for the Coyotes. And he said, "The biggest issue I see with young players today is, they're playing to not get released, or to not get hurt." And so it's this perfection thing is, they don't go hair on fire against the boards when they're hitting somebody, and they just bounce off, and they're playing it too safe. Because they don't have that confidence or connecting to that, why?
Erik Averill (29:26): And one of the exercises that really hit me reading, It Takes What It Takes from Trevor Moawad, working with Russell as he goes through this framework, that a lot of times when I talk to our clients, "Do you know why you're good?" They can't articulate why they're actually in the big leagues, in the NFL, on the PGA tour. You get more of the refinement may be in the business world, but part of it is, they lack confidence because they actually don't know what makes them good. And when you don't understand what goes into making you an elite athlete, how can you even evaluate to get better? And so there's this lack of confidence because there's a lack of clarity.
Erik Averill (30:06): And that's such an important thing of going, "What we're not talking about is just telling you what you want to hear." Because I think that's part of the issue we know, and all of our life, one of the things that happens is we get more successful, whether it's the founder, the CEO, the athlete, everybody starts to go, "I want something from them." Whether it's money, whether it's fame, it's association, we see this from, every aspect. It's, everybody feels a certain thing, but nobody will tell the athlete. And the athlete is literally sitting there being, "Why didn't anybody tell me?" So I just love to hear you talk about building your inner circle, and having this direct conversation. There's just such a lack of clarity on what makes me good? How to advance the ball forward? I just love to hear your thoughts on that.
Coach Dar (31:02): Well, the one thing I love about this too, is when I'm working with someone, we write out obviously where do they want to go? I need you to be able to see where the ship is going. What are your goals? I also ask them, "Who's someone that you've always said, I emulate my game like this, I have pattern." Then I say, "If I was writing your scouting card right now, what are the things I'd write down is, what are they scouting, that you're really good at?" That same thing, I want to know what makes you great. Then I want to know, who are the people that are your competitors? And then when I do that, I'm like, "Do you think you're you have this new? Well, yeah." I was like, "Great."
Coach Dar (31:40): Because now where they would have had doubt on this comparison, they're like, "Well, I skate just as fast." Or, "I feel this just as good." Or, "These are things I get better on, but this is where I'm really good at." Devin's going to say, "I'm solid on my three point shot. Give me the shot a buzzer beater, I have the confidence to do it." Everyone's going to say something different, but having that clarity to your point is so solid in building confidence because, a lot of the work that I do is emotional intelligence. And one of the things is to be aware of what you're really good at.
Coach Dar (32:14): And then also, if this is not your strength, I'm not trying to make your weakness stronger, no. I'm trying to make your strength stronger, lean into that. That's going to build confidence and that's your clarity. Clarity and confidence go together, hand in hand, and then let's go keep that strength going, because that's why you're brought on the team, or that's why you're hired into this position, or what you're doing well.
Coach Dar (32:33): And then who's the teammate that's filling in on the thing that you're not good at? So just having that clarity is really good. And then, what was the other question that you just asked me at the end of clarity?
Erik Averill (32:46): I think just the inner circle you put around yourself. Yeah.
Coach Dar (32:52): This is so important because especially, I literally keep pounding into the mindset for everyone is, you have to have the right people around you, and you have to have everyone ... There are going to be people that take different roles. So yes, you'll have that kind of cheerleader person in your life, but you have to also have the person that has already built trust with you, that's going to be that mirror, in a way that's going to help you call it out to you. Say what needs to be said. That's going to protect you. Protect you not only for your game, but even in your life. Because if you don't have that friend that's going to be like, "No, I don't think we should do that." That's going to take you right out of your game. You're going to be dealing with a choice and a decision that you made off the court, that takes you right off the court, out of the game completely.
Coach Dar (33:40): So having an inner circle is so important, and you have to have the right people because everyone does want something from you. And, we do a lot and I'll teach them on how to build the ability to have discernment. It is so important to teach people how to have discernment, so you have the right people on your team. Not, "I know you might've been friends with them for the past 10 years, but are they good for you as you go further?" And LeBron had some sort of quote and I'm not going to say it right, but he said, "When people say you've changed." And he's like, "Well, I hope so. I want to evolve. And if I don't have the same people around me, it's because they didn't want to evolve with me. And if you don't want to evolve to help me to be my highest and best you, so then I can help you be the best that you do, and we all help each other, then you're not coming in the inner circle on the tribe." That's key.
Coach Dar (34:34): And I normally have a bracelet that says RTB and I have keynotes that I talk about Raise The Bar. The people in your inner circle, need to be people that when you walk in the room, you're like, "I'm so glad you're here." You elevate. You elevate the energy, the space, the mindset. If anyone in your inner circle brings everyone down, they've got to be out. You can't reach peak performance with that. That means, if you have a chef that is, maybe cooks well but isn't good person, if you have a trainer that comes in and maybe they know the best thing on how to get your body right, but their energy and their persona is just, they come in with a scowl, they're not positive, just bring no energy, what do you think that's going to do? There's a transference of energy.
Coach Dar (35:20): So you got to have people that are around you, when you come in, you're getting locked in. You're literally plugging yourself into other people. And you got to take that on. So what is your inner circle doing? And by the way, I'm not saying we have a bunch of cheerleaders, but your inner circle has to be the right type of people, that's going to be, "We all want to evolve and raise the bar." We all want to peak perform. And maybe it's someone that's on your team that's had a really good marriage, and they are really good with knowing how to communicate and relationships. And the reason I even bring that up is because if you want to go in your space and you want to peak perform, well, you want to make sure you have healthy relationships. We'll get that guidance from that person who's not like, "Yep. You just got handcuffed here, oh man, it's going to take you down every day." You don't need that person talking life like that into you.
Coach Dar (36:09): So I'm talking every facet, find that inner circle that helps elevate your space so that you could be the best version you could be. Because every part, this is the 360, plays into every part.
Erik Averill (36:20): And before you go, I think that it's one of the fun things about when people ask, "What's it like to work with your brother?" I'm like, "Hell and great at the same time." Because you hear this adage of, "Oh, you don't want to work with your family and the friends." And where people misunderstand that is, you don't want to work in an environment where now all of a sudden difficult things happen and most people just won't approach them. And so it destroys relationship because they're too afraid to have real conversations. And it's been the biggest gift, it's what you say on the LeBron side. It's like, if you look at who I was when we started this business in 2010, and he laughs, we literally have this in our internal documents at AWM that it says, "Our job is to be an older brother to our clients, not a paternalistic father, but an older brother that says, I am so committed to your success. I'm going to kick you in the ass." And I'm also going to encourage you.
Erik Averill (37:20): And I think that, one of the things that is such a benefit to us being brothers, at times people are like, if they saw us driving down the road together, they'd be like, "These two guys are going to kill each other." And 13 seconds later, we're walking and having a coffee. But it's the one thing I know unequivocally is this guy loves me. He's for me. Which also means that he is never going to allow me to stay where I'm at. And that's a gift. It doesn't mean I like it very often. And I think it's this joke, but it's what we try to do with our clients, is saying, "Literally take a piece of paper, do a relationship map, who's your lane one people, who's your lane, two people." And it's not a bad thing, but just answer what do they want from me? And I'm my willing to give it for them?
Erik Averill (38:06): And just so there's a there's clarity, and I just think it's so powerful I'll let you jump in, it's something I'm thankful for, because most people don't don't get it. Most people don't have that person, because you're also afraid to hear it. And that's just the ... It comes with empathy, it comes with discernment. He's learned some discernment not to blow me up all the time, but yeah, I think it's so powerful and we live it every day.
Brandon Averill (38:32): And the other thing is we all know that the saying, you're the average of the seven people that you surround yourself with. And there's so much truth. And it's also people letting themselves off the hook. It's not a disloyalty to let people move throughout your life. And there's different people at different times that fit in your life. And giving yourself permission, I just had this conversation with one of our clients, it's an elite performer, and he's coming to this realization that, hey, his buddies from high school were great and they're successful. They've got good jobs, but they just have a different cadence to life, and he's trying to do something very special. And all of this is about, I thought your points on making the decision, knowing where you want to go are so important, because it doesn't mean that those people aren't good people, it just means that if I need the seven people that are getting me where I want to be, they might just not fit in right now, and that's okay.
Brandon Averill (39:29): And it doesn't mean you have to be evil to them or disrespectful, it's just allowing them to filter out and bring the people in that are going to take you to that next level. And the quicker you realize that ... And it's magic when you see somebody realize that. And so, it's just so important, I don't know if you agree with this, but I think it's giving yourself permission to allow the right people to come into that circle, and the permission that you're not a bad person. You're not disloyal to let some people go that have been with you for a long time.
Coach Dar (40:00): And truly that's what love is. Giving self-love and also love to others and saying, "It's just where we're going. It's not about not being mean." It's saying, "Where I'm going, there's a space and a time and a place and people that I need on this journey. I love you, I'm just going this way, and I need to go on this journey." And the person that's like, "I got it." That's unconditional love. Because it should never be conditional. "If you do this for me, then I'll do this ..." No. And then to go back to your point about the power of having that big brother, I often say to everyone that I coach, "I'm your big sister now." Literally, I'm your big sister, I'm here, I love you. I tell people all the time, "I love you." And I mean it.
Coach Dar (40:41): And I will have built trust with them, so now when I have to come in and coach a little harder, that tough love, they're not mad, they're like, "I understand this is coming from a place of love." We've built that trust. But I often say I'm like a big sister, and then my sister, I call her Serge, she's four years older than me. She knows exactly how to push me to be better or be aware of things, before I make that step that might go wrong. And I appreciate it so much, because we love each other unconditional. We really do. And that's powerful. But for people listening, that's the type of person or coach or advisor that you want in your space, that's going to love you. That's going to guide you, be there for you, you could go to no matter what, but they're also going to direct you. And they're going to say the things that you might not want to hear, but you need to hear at that moment.
Coach Dar (41:35): And here's a key thing, when you're listening, being a therapist, this is one of the greatest tools that I learned and I share it with others is, when you're having a conversation and someone comes to you, you could do this in your marriage, in your coaching relationship, any relationship. Say, "Is this something you want me to just listen right now to or help? And or, do you want both of them?" Am I just coming to listen right now, so you could just talk? Or do you want me to listen, and then help guide you? And sometimes people just need to talk. They don't want you to respond and they don't want an answer. They just need, "Nope, I'm coming just to talk right now. I'm coming just because I have to get this off my chest, but I don't want a solution right now. I'm not in the mental space to hear it right now."
Coach Dar (42:19): When you understand that, you will avoid a lot of fights at home, for relationships. And then the other point is because, by nature, I'm built to want to help solve things, help people see where to go, but I've learned to say, "I'm just going to step back and I'm going to listen right now. Is that what you want?" They're like, "Yeah. I just need you to listen right now." Great. And then when they can, maybe it's in an hour, maybe it's the next get day, then we can figure out the solution. So that's really key, because most people just want to go and fix. And by the way, when you just help fix someone's problem when they're not ready, they don't learn. And so then we're actually hurting them instead of building mental strength.
Brandon Averill (42:59): Sure.
Erik Averill (43:00): That would be an entire additional podcast, that last point. Truly, because I see it in our circles. Is, especially when we are elevated at a level that we can hire people to do things for us, it's we manage money for them. A lot of times we'll hurt our clients if we don't educate them. Agents do it for them, don't educate them. Strength coaches, peak performance coaches, and now all of a sudden you have an athlete that doesn't have ownership. Doesn't have ownership of their entire life, of CEO or perform ... Is that lack of ownership.
Erik Averill (43:35): And so you've given us an incredible amount of wisdom, practical tools too. For everybody listening we'll make sure that all of this is in the show notes. You can access it at athleteceo.com. We will make sure we have links to all of coach Dar's resources. I know she's got a masterclass online, a training program, obviously you can reach out, see if she has availability to work with. I bet you there's a waiting list. But before we go, is there any last words of wisdom or anything, an ask that you would have of our audience that you'd like to share?
Coach Dar (44:18): I think just at the end of the day, everything that you heard, hopefully it shifted your mindset, but you've got to apply it. That all of this information is great. Knowledge is great, but knowledge applied is wisdom. And we started off with what greatness is, the greats take information, and then they put it into action. Get the right people around you, create that inner circle. It's not about quantity, it's about quality. We've got to start having more quality in our life and you want to bring the quality, you want to be around the quality, you want to have quality advisors and coaches. And then you want to be that person of quality, which means you've got to put in the reps, you've got to put in the time. Greatness just doesn't happen by accident, it happens through hard work and commitment. So apply that.
Coach Dar (45:02): And I'm just grateful to be on the show, and I'd be more than happy if I have the bandwidth to help those that need it. And then even speaking, that's really where I have more bandwidth, where if you need, and there's people that need that pep talk, I'm more than happy to give it. So thanks for having me on the show, and if you want I'll come back and we could talk about another topic that we really need to.
Brandon Averill (45:26): That'll be fun.
Erik Averill (45:27): Yeah. Thank you so much. And for the audience, thank you guys for your attention, we know it's valuable. We hope that you've truly found this as a way to help you unlock your potential. And so until next time, stay humble, stay hungry and always be a pro.