Athlete CEO #032: Finding Success as a Founder | Kobie Fuller of Upfront Ventures
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Kobie Fuller is the perfect venn diagram of the Athlete CEO – he was a track star at Harvard, used his background in tech to invest early in some of the top winners of emerging technologies including Oculus and Exact Target, and now works as a partner for Upfront Ventures where he continues to help discover and fund innovative tech companies.
He has seen startups rise and fall and knows what it takes to be successful in founding a company, and shares with us what he’s seen over the years. He also is uniquely familiar with how the worlds of sports and business intersect in their values and daily practices, which he has used to help advise new business owners as well as find his own success as a co-founder through Valence Community, a social network for Black professionals started in November 2019.
Prior to Upfront, Kobie was the CMO at REVOLVE in Los Angeles, one of the world’s largest fashion e-commerce sites. Earlier in his career he was an investor at Insight Venture Partners and a founding member of Openview Venture Partners. He was the captain of the Harvard track team when he attended and ran the 200m, and the 400m events.
Topics discussed include:
Why Kobie got kicked off the basketball team growing up
Accomplishing big things by taking on the mentality of “It takes what it takes”
Putting in the work needed to achieve your goals
The similarities between athletes and venture capitalists
How to surround yourself with elite performers instead of bozos
The founding of Valence Community in 2019
How start up founders can be successful by leaning in to what they’re uniquely equipped to do
How to find a mentor
Tips on balancing your life and being a good example to your kids
Investing in yourself by being selfless and selfish at the same time
The importance of investing in your health and wellness
+ Read the Transcript
Erik Averill (00:00):
Yeah. It's really exciting for Brandon and I, we had an opportunity to spend a few minutes with you, and a group of current slash former professional athletes as part of an educational event at CES this earlier in January of this year. And, it's fun for us to be able to follow up on so much conversation. And, really where we want to start is very common, a lot of people want to start with, "Hey, take us back to the beginning." And, we're definitely going to jump into some of your iconic wins from an investment standpoint with exact target in Oculus.
Erik Averill (00:35):
But, where I would love to start is learning a little bit more about your history and your narrative of what it was like to grow up in Milton, Mass, and understanding a lot of those dynamics. Because we're big believers that so much of who we are as kids and our families shape the way that we look at the world today. So, I'd love for you just to share with our listeners a little bit about what it was like growing up and the emphasis on sports or computers. And, I just love to hear a little bit about that.
Kobie Fuller (01:03):
Totally. I'm an East Coast guy, like you said. Grew up in Milton, Massachusetts, and athletics was a huge part of my upbringing. Originally, the story goes actually that I was super passionate about basketball, always was on the courts. Nights, weekends playing. Thought I was pretty damn good until I get to freshmen high school tryouts. And, I thought I had it in the bag. Coach said, "To make the team, you need two out of three traits. First one being heart. Second one being skill. The third one being speed." Goes through the full week, brings in this athletes, one by one into his office. He sits me down, and he goes, "Okay, Kobie. Like I told you that you need two out of three of these traits to make the team hard. Heart, you got a ton of heart. At speed, you're clearly the fastest guy in the court, but you got no damn skill. So, I don't think you belong on the team – the basketball team is not going to happen."
Kobie Fuller (02:20):
So, I was heartbroken, "Damn, I've spent most of my life just putting in the work and it's not going to happen." But, it probably was one of the best thing that happened because then I was like, "Wait a minute, heart and speed that's a pretty good recipe for track and field." So, I went on and started trying my luck at running around the oval, and started off by career as a sprinter. So, I was the 400, 200 guy. So, in high school, the moronic coaches puts you in every event if you have any better athleticism to beat up other towns in duel meets. So, I'd have meets, I was doing the mile, followed by the triple jump, long jump, four by one, four by four, then throwing some hurdles, which is just not healthy. But, that was so much of my upbringing is being able to be competitive around the oval.
Kobie Fuller (03:10):
And then also, I was a nerd. I was total nerd. Loved gaming and really got into technology and computers through gaming. My dad worked for Compaq, actually Digital Equipment if anyone remembers that company that was acquired Compaq, was acquired HP. And, I remember very early on, he brought home this computer, and I didn't know what I'd be able to do with it. But, let me see if I can play some games on it. And then, played some games, and more and more as I tried to play the better games the computer wouldn't really stand up to run those games. So, asked my dad like, "Hey, bring home another computer." He was like, "Hey, bugger off. Lord Jesus, figure out how to have fun with the computer I gave you, ungrateful little kids."
Kobie Fuller (03:52):
So then, I figured out how to go in and find ways to optimize the OS, and found also ways to take my allowance money and buy upgrades, the motherboard and graphics card. And then, my dad saw that passion, and was able to then allow me to pursue it even more by giving you a little bit of money to build my own computers in the light. And then, that also resulted me into doing IT support, and get a job working in my local town hall helping troubleshoot, A, technical issues amongst all the offices there. And, that was my upbringing, the combination of just athletics and computers, which it really is still what I do today, is I invest in technology, and I'm a meathead lifting in the gym. So, that's how I grew up, as just playing video games, repairing computers, and beating kids on the track.
Erik Averill (04:46):
Wow. And, it's impressive, right? One of the things, and we'll get into this later in the podcast, is talking I think through mine and Brandon's own professional careers as athletes. And, even conversations we have today is there's this almost mythical belief of like, "I only have time to be one type of person." And, here you are. I think I listened in a previous video, this IT support you were during, I mean this is during junior high and high school, correct? That you were doing this.
Kobie Fuller (05:15):
Yep.
Erik Averill (05:15):
Yeah. So, here you are, you become obviously a track star, and you're doing IT work at the same point. So, a lot of us I don't think that's what we had going on in high school. But, tell me a little bit, you end up at Harvard, is that driven more off of your athletic background, or love for the academic side, or why Harvard? Obviously, we can sit here and say it's Harvard from an Ivy League standpoint. But, was that decision a combination of the both? What made you end up there?
Kobie Fuller (05:48):
Yeah. Full transparency on that, for a while, if they went from Boston they know that Harvard is stop on the red line T. To me, it was always the stop on the red line somewhere in Cambridge. I didn't know, for a while, I was like, "Oh wow, that's a pretty prestigious institution." So, one day, probably junior senior year started getting all these letters to my homeroom in high school from all these recruiters trying to get me to look at their schools. And then, one day I started getting all these Ivy League letters, then I started seeing people's reactions to Harvard, or Princeton, and Yale, and then I'm like, "Oh, wait a minute, people are reacting a lot differently to some of these other schools." So then, I decided, why not take some of these tours then apply, and I got it.
Kobie Fuller (06:40):
And, luckily enough I had the grades to be able to go to such a great school like Harvard, and that's how honestly how the decision was made. It was honestly a lot of this blast inbounds from a lot of different amazing schools of all kinds. And also, it was one where I wanted to stay local, family matters a lot to me. And so, being closer to my family is something that I really prioritized at an early age. And, it was a perfect fit on so many different levels, from being able to still pursue sports at a D1 institution, as well as have the blessing of a really good top of the line liberal arts education.
Brandon Averill (07:27):
Yeah. Kobie, I mean, that's super helpful. One thing I'd love for you to dig in maybe even a little further on that experience is once you're at Harvard, obviously it's a top academic institution, and you're competing on the track, and not only competing, but you're winning at the highest level. And, Erik had alluded to this a little bit, but this time fallacy, or the time excuse, right? How do you balance both, as far as on the track, in the classroom? And then, maybe even extrapolate a little bit into your transition. As you went on, I read somewhere that, as you went into the working world, you were actually still running with Nike. You were still trying to compete at a very high level. I'd love to hear maybe your experience, how you handled that, but also advice for other people when they have that, "I don't have enough time." Excuse sitting out there.
Kobie Fuller (08:25):
Yeah. Totally. So, I'd say, actually the principle that I didn't realize I lived by at such a early point in my life, that now come front center, is the full concept of, honestly, it takes what it takes. So, one of my now good friends, the guy by the name of Trevor Moawad, who is basically a mental performance coach. Works with a bunch of elite athletes the likes of, Russell Wilson, coach Saban, and a bunch of other household names. And, Trevor really preaches amongst many things, just if there's something in your life that you want, whether you're trying to win a Super Bowl, you're trying to get that promotion, you're trying to create the next unicorn company. It just takes what it takes. And, that may mean that you have to put in way more time in the weight room, or on the track, or on the field, or reading a lot more books than you want to, to actually reach that level of success.
Kobie Fuller (09:34):
And, for me early on, I just realized that's just the way I had to live my life. And, part of it was through some tough experiences, where a summer at freshman year because I really wanted to go to Harvard, you can't be failing tests. I just remember my first statistics midterm I thought like, "Yeah, this is pretty easy. Statistics is like rolling dice, then the probability you get some number, and I'll figure it out." And, I still remember to this date, it's so vivid in my head. I get the blue book back with the numbers 37 on it, and I'm like, "Okay, I didn't know it's out of 100, but things are graded on a curve here at Harvard so everyone probably really failed and that's probably a B." But then, this is probably a class like 250 people.
Kobie Fuller (10:29):
I look up at the screen, and there's this histogram. I remember that's the statistic, but this histogram of all of this distribution and scores across the actual class. And, I look up and I see there's a cluster around mid-90s, I guess those overachieving kids that really studied for the test. And then, there's some around got 70 or so. And then, there is this long tail, and then this reddened outlier at 37. And, my buddy he was trying to have me not look up and see it. Then I look up, and I'm like, "Damn, I got by far the lowest grade in the class." And, I realized, "Hey, I'm trying to go to this school, if I'm trying to actually make it through, I got to a study." And, the professor doesn't care if I'm also trying to put work in on the track, and be one of the top sprinters in the Ivy League.
Kobie Fuller (11:26):
And, vice versa, I still remember with sophomore year, we get our butts whooped at the Ivy League Championships, come in last by such a long stretch. I think we maybe got as a team got 17 points, that's horrible. If you went first at any given event, you get 10 points. And, there's a lot of events where you've should get more than 17 points. So then, I realized that, if I'm going to continue and come back in junior year, I can, one comeback be mediocre and get my ass kicked again, two just quit, or three really put in the work. And, you know what? There's a choice in life. You're going to have a choice of actually staying and trying to achieve great success, or you can quit. That year, a lot of people actually quit, a lot of my teammates were just like, "You know what, this is not worth it. I rather do something else with my time." And, for me I was like, "You know what, I want to be an Ivy League champ. And, I want to actually try and help turn this team around."
Kobie Fuller (12:23):
And, that year we had... Still not the greatest year, was a lot better. And, that really was the jumping off point for me to actually achieve some of the fastest times I've ever run in my life. My senior year where I realized I want to actually be the best I can as an Ivy League sprinter, I'm just going to have to put the time in on the track, while still not getting the lowest grade on my statistics exam. And, I think that's generally what life is all about, you always have all these conflicting forces and pulls on how you spend your time. And, a lot of it is being able to compartmentalize, knowing what it takes to actually achieve success that you're trying to achieve, and then just putting in the work. And, in realizing that if you don't want to actually see the... If you're trying to take illusion that you can achieve X by putting in Y, but you put in Z, then you might as well save yourself the time and just quit. So, for me it's all about just putting in what it takes to actually see results you want. And, not lying to yourself about what it takes to do it.
Brandon Averill (13:29):
Thanks for sharing that. I think that's a fantastic lesson. And, I think at the heart of it is determining what you really want, and then figuring out what it takes, and whether it's worth it. So, I think that's huge. And, both Erik and I had read somewhere that you had talked about not all sports are created equal. And, it sounds like a lot of this lesson comes from that, is in an individual sport, even though track does have a team element, you can't really hide. You have to put the work in to be able to be successful individually. I'd love for you if that's accurate, or if you need to correct me, I'd love for you to extrapolate that a little bit. Just talk about the difference in your mind between team sports, and being an individual, and then maybe tying back in to being a good teammate. I would love to hear your thoughts around that.
Kobie Fuller (14:22):
Yeah, for sure. Well, the one thing at least I wasn't blessed to be able to participate directly, and as an organized team sport because remember I did get cut from the freshman basketball team. So, all I do know is running around. It's awful. But, the interesting thing, at least about track is, you do have that accountability to your team in terms of, to win against your opponent. Everyone is putting in their own work, in practice, on the track, in the weight room, on the field to bring their best selves on that day where they better have gotten the proper rest, they better have eaten appropriately, so that they can get the most points possible, so that the collective numbers come together where you win. And, that's how trackteams just function, in terms of how they competed against others.
Kobie Fuller (15:26):
And for me, especially as captain in my senior year, I tried to really lead by example and help inspire other members of my team, regardless of whether they were already candidates to being Ivy League champ, or they were potentially the slowest guy on the team around, bring your best self day in day out, and perform at the highest level you possibly can perform at, regardless if you potentially might be the fastest person on the track. Because one, you never know how your opponent is behaving. So, you have to have fear and anxiety around just, what your current position is, to begin with in terms of being able to get the points to win the meet.
Kobie Fuller (16:15):
And then, two, that's just how you should just conduct your life in general in my opinion, is just always optimize for the best performance you can as an individual. So, that's how I actually led as a captain, is that I was the first guy on the track, probably the last guy out. I was working in the weight room hard as hell, and I was running the fastest times I ever did even though I was running reasonably fast times at that point. And, also I pushed others to do the same, and inspired many runners who at that time coming into the year where it is okay to just feed off everyone energy. And, we had just an amazing vibe, an amazing just chemistry around just wanting to dominate our opponents.
Kobie Fuller (16:59):
Even though we didn't win the Ivy League Championship that year, the feeling of just everyone coming together, and bring their best self, and lay all on the line day in day out was just electric. And, I think in organized sports, it's very much similar as well. I think what's beautiful about how potentially on a football field or a soccer field, where you have to actually have even more chemistry together with one another, understand how people move, how they work, being able to actually real time talk in their ear, and just motivate each other. I think there's even more complexities around that, that brings more psychology into the game, and more understanding how to best leverage others that are in the heat of battle against your opponent. Which sometimes that does allow some folks to hide if there's some person that can really just dominate the field and carry the weight.
Kobie Fuller (17:57):
But also, many times that person that you may have depended on in those instances to carry the weight of the team, they can be having a bad day. So, that means that you need to step up as the teammate to carry the weight as well, so that it adds some flows. I think the one thing about, again, individual sports is that it's all pure, it's all a matter of, you, the gun, the track, and the finish line, and the clock. And, whoever gets to the finish line first, and clocks the fastest time wins, which I think is quite a little bit different. And, how I look about how that relates to you, my role as a venture capitalist it's a similarity in terms of, we're a collective of partners, but individually, we're going out there trying to source the best investments, while still leveraging the partnership to find and win those deals.
Kobie Fuller (18:46):
And then, two we're serving on boards, we're serving as a lead point with those CEOs to help, hopefully optimize for the best outcome which in the case of analogy relative to the way a Super Bowl is, finding a multi-billion dollar exit that realizes material capital for our limited partners, and for us as investors. And, a lot of that goes into how much work I'm I personally putting into sourcing, networking with entrepreneurs, founders, creating my own thesis around sectors I should be investing in, putting in the time, putting in the work to help all my portfolio companies be their best selves and bring the best they can to their own battlefields that they're on the frontlines day in day out trying to compete in the heat of battle. And, there's a lot of learnings extracted from my track days, that I've been able to bring to my venture capital days because it's a very, very, very similar mentality and psychology.
Erik Averill (19:53):
There were so many great lessons throughout that story, we could go many different directions. But, one of the things that I keep hearing from you, is definitely about optimizing, of taking this personal responsibility, the extreme ownership for really the results that you create, and this effort. One of the things that I also am struck by is your strategy of surrounding yourself with other elite performers. I feel like you get to two viewpoints. There are unfortunately some that surround themselves with others that aren't as good as them, so that they can always feel like they're the best in the room.
Erik Averill (20:37):
What I'm hearing from you, and I love to hear how it bleeds over to what you guys are doing it Upfront as far as your employees, and what portfolio companies you guys invest in is... What I'm taking away from you is the importance of actually having people that are a little bit further ahead of you, or maybe better than you at a specific aspect. Am I catching that right? Or what would you say of the people you choose to surround yourself with.
Kobie Fuller (21:03):
Yeah. My overall mentality of life is, you are the company you keep. If you hang out with a bunch of bozos, then people look at you like a bozo. And, if you surround yourself with elite performers... And, elite performers, it doesn't necessarily have to mean they're the richest person in the world, or they have the highest level of credentials or accomplishments in the athletic arena. There's elite professionals, there's elite people that are elite with regards how they parent in the home, and take care of their kids, the way they are spiritually grounded, the way they just operate in life. And, you know it when you see someone that behaves and walks in that manner.
Kobie Fuller (21:57):
And, you know it when you see someone who's just a little bit rotten in some area of their life. And, the way I've tried to at least conduct myself and carry myself is, I definitely try to act with the level of humility and selflessness, and at the same time push myself by surrounding myself with folks that can hold me accountable, and push me to my highest level of execution in all facets of life. And, in return, I'll do that for them, and we all grow together.
Kobie Fuller (22:36):
And, I think when you find a dynamic like that, whether it's, again, your personal life, or your professional life with regards to the types of founders you choose to back, and the level of success that they're chasing after, and outcomes they're looking for, while at the same time they are grounded in how they actually create a culture, and run a business that is not all about who makes the most money in the day, but how they went about their journey, and how they created their business that incredibly affected people's lives around the world.
Kobie Fuller (23:18):
And for me, that's the type of founder I like to invest in, those are types of people I like to surround myself with, because at the end of the day I feel like life is just all a function of relationships, and people who you spend time with. And, the more I can spend time with those types of people, the more I will both enjoy my life, and also get the most value out of life.
Brandon Averill (23:40): Yeah, that's awesome. Great insights. And, I think hopefully, this isn't too far of a tangent but just you talking about the passion and surrounding yourself with people that challenge you, or really try to make a difference. We'd love to dig in a little bit to Valence, just what was the impetus behind that? What made you make the decision to throw operator back on your plate in addition to investor and board member? Just an open forum, but we'd love to hear the passion behind that. What led you down that path?
Kobie Fuller (24:15):
Yeah. Well, I just had so much free time being a VC and a father of two, and - in all seriousness, it was a startup that I was never really trying to create. But, I just saw firsthand there being this dynamic around, one, companies saying they want to hire more underrepresented talent, but struggled to find where they are. Which many folks when they hear that will say, "You're not trying hard enough." But, my reaction is, if someone actually articulates a problem, instead of smacking them over the head and saying, "Let's do better." Or, why don't I try to help them to solve that. And then, two, investors saying they want to back more black founders, but they have no idea where to source them. And for me, I was like, "Wouldn't it be a pretty interesting idea if I could create a platform that basically created better transparency around the people within the black professional community."
Kobie Fuller (25:34):
And then, I realized if I were to do that, that's probably the more viable for the community itself, because contrary to popular belief, not every black person knows one another. But, it'd be interesting, but what if we could? What if we could through a digital platform like this? And then, I realized that if I were to create a digital platform like this, it can't just look sterile and boring, it has to have a brand soul, it has to look good, it has feel good. It can't be just that cute black professional networking platform over to the side there. I wanted to make it the best professional networking platform, period. But, it happens to be initially focused on black professionals.
Kobie Fuller (26:22):
And, there was an idea around there, then be this narrative around using superheroes as a way to present some of what I consider quiet superheroes that are walking amongst us, in a manner so that they're celebrated, and can inspire the next generation of talent to think about, "Maybe I could also be the next Robert Smith." Or, name your successful black professional choice. And, do that through a visual storytelling mechanism that can better connect with someone in their youth. So, it was an idea I had, and I was hoping, honestly, as I came to the idea that I would just tell it people, and they would just run with it, and do it themselves, and I can just fund it because my job is to fund companies not create them.
Kobie Fuller (27:12):
But everyone was like, "That's a great idea. You do it." "It's a great idea to do it." And then, I started creating this website as more of a passion project, and then as I was mentioning what the concept was to corporations, a lot of folks would say, "Wow, that's a great idea. I would pay money to access this database." I'm like, "That's interesting." And then, other fellow venture investor buddies were like, "I want to fund this database." And, I was like, "Wait a minute, I'm a VC I can fund my own stuff." But by the logic. So then, honestly, I just told my partners at Upfront this concept, and they were so incredibly supportive to the point where it's like, "Yeah, we should incubate this." We don't really incubate companies.
Kobie Fuller (28:00):
But, that's the place Upfront is, we care about topics and creating incredible value and impact in this world above and beyond just a buck for ourselves. And, this falls in that area around how we can actually really move the needle in terms of just helping this community better find one another, access incredible executive opportunities, get on public boards, and also get funded.
Kobie Fuller (28:29):
And, we were iterating on it for about a year, publicly launched it late last year in November. And, just got an overwhelmingly positive response from so many people in and outside of the community. We have upwards of 7000 people on the platform and growing with no real marketing against it. And, we're just really now in a MVP phase of the platform, that we feel could be a vehicle to drive material impact. Again, this was one where I just wanted to see these issues moved along, and I wanted to see something that could scale would solve the problem.
Kobie Fuller (29:11):
And, I know that could be done with technology. And, I just realized if I could put my efforts against this, that I can at least try to do my part in really bringing value to the world, and do it in a way where it is something can be so much bigger than me or anyone at Upfront. This could actually change a lot of people's lives. And, who knows if it will in practice, but we're trying, and I'm trying to do my part and do it in a way where I hope it inspires others.
Brandon Averill (29:46):
Wow. I mean, that's awesome. What an inspiring story. Congrats, obviously in the success already, to have 7000 people on the platform with such little marketing. It sounds like it's gaining great traction. And, it actually reminds me of an interview you did at the Upfront Summit with John Legend and James Lowery. There was a comment that Jim made around having... He was referring to John Legend as far as having the talent and the platform, but then really trying to be that change maker, and use that platform for a greater impact beyond himself. And, I don't know, I get that relation to what you're doing there with Valence. And I guess, if you had any advice for our end listeners, a lot of them are professional athletes, they do have platforms and things they can do.
Brandon Averill (30:44):
It sounds like you took that that bigger mindset and applied it here, even though maybe that's not what you sought out initially to do, but when it was presented, you took it. I'd love to hear just when somebody has a platform, and has that desire to go out and have a bigger impact, how do you handle that? What's maybe some advice for them?
Kobie Fuller (31:04):
Yeah. I guess it all depends on... I think anyone just needs to really follow their passion, and be authentically themselves. It's so easy to realize you have a platform, you have access, and you should do something. But, is it something that you are uniquely positioned to actually do and do well? And, just being very, let's say, realistic with yourself around what to you is that passion and work? And, you truly be authentic, and work, and you truly excel and provide meaningful value. And, I think once you really figure out what that is, I'd say just really lean into it. Lean into it into a way where it's just supernatural, and something you obsess about, and something where that passion, and that emotion really bleeds through, where that authenticity bleeds through. Because that's what truly inspires others, when they actually hear that message, they hear whatever you're trying to push out there.
Kobie Fuller (32:21):
People these days, they're smart, they'll realize if you're not really having authentic mission or truly being yourself. But, when they do see that, and when they do see that something is just flowing from your soul and your bones, the right people will follow and congregate, and really support you on that mission. And, your platform can be used for good work. And, I'd say surround yourself with people that are also on that similar mission with you, and potentially even may even be more, so that they better than you in the mission. Fist like Jim Lowery, he's been putting in this work for years. I'd never would have thought rewinding back over a year ago that someone like Jim Lowery would even spend private time a day with me talking about this topic. But, he saw the passion, and just the toil itself with effort that was put against this overall category. And, it's closed, it's like my life's work is now yours. Let's do this together. And, I'm feeling, "Oh my God, that's a lot of pressure, but we're doing this together."
Kobie Fuller (33:40):
So, the strengths I have, that he doesn't have, and vice versa, but it's a combined effort. And, it's that still unified vision we have where the collective, one plus one equals three in this case. And, we're just continue to bring more and more powerful people along for that same mission. So, it's just knowing where you have those gaps, knowing where to augment, where to compliment, and then knowing where you can actually be a magnet for others to drive meaningful change collectively at scale. And, that's I think how at least I approached it.
Kobie Fuller (34:16):
And again, I'm super early in this journey with regards to Valance, who knows where it goes. I'm just trying to do what feels natural to me. And, all I know is that I never would have thought the types of folks that were getting on board with the mission would be so excited to deal with me. But, I think we just have that shared passion and vision, and authenticity around just trying to drive change. I think people need to find a similar underlying motivation themselves. Authenticity that can achieve similar outcomes, if that makes sense.
Brandon Averill (34:51):
Yeah. No, makes a tremendous amount of sense. And, I'd loved to almost stick for a second on that. If you could tap back into that question you had with Jim. He had made another comment that I thought would be really helpful for people listening is that, it's one thing to be a good mentor, but there's also the aspect of being a good mentee. And, I would love to hear... I would imagine you've mentored quite a few people, and it sounds like you've also been on the mentee side. So, I would love to hear, what are some things that people could do to make sure that they're a good mentee? And, I'm sure it's just leaning in a little bit more to what you were just talking about.
Kobie Fuller (35:32):
Yeah. Well, first off, I chuckle when I get approached by folks and they dive in like, "I want you to mentor me." It's like, "No, not how it works." You just don't go in to say like, "Mentor me." It's like, really good mentor mentee relationships, which in my experience, just happen organically. They happen naturally. And then, you wake up one day and you're like, "Wow, I actually happen to be this person's mentor. I just before thought we were just friends." And, I was like, "Oh no, I've actually meaningfully given this person advice, and have looked out for that person's career, or looked out for that person's personal life in a way where they look at me as their mentor." And, in those instances, they probably have come with questions, focused asks, and also have brought value themselves to the conversation, so it didn't feel like it's a one way street. It was very much a two way dynamic going on.
Kobie Fuller (36:44):
And, I think the best mentor mentee relationships I've been a part of, are naturally organic like that, where it doesn't feel like a clear hierarchy. And also, there's this mutual value transfer. I feel like some of the best mentees I've had over my career have taught me a ton, and they've allowed me to grow. Because I feel like we all learn so much from one another in life. I'd say that's at least retrospecting on how the best mentee mentor relationship look like in practice, how they result at the end. But, the beginning I'd say how you actually approach it is, just come with a very small, discreet focused ask to begin with. And, don't waste someone's time, don't come in with something super heavy, where the mentor potentially has to do so much work where it's like, "Oh my god, I don't know what to do with this."
Kobie Fuller (37:44):
But, take baby steps, and those baby steps... Then if that initial focused ask was super easy to execute on the mentor side, and the interaction itself was enjoyable for both, then dialogue continues to happen, and it becomes a relationship. And, it how you just does develop a natural relationship in a way where it just doesn't feel contrived, it doesn't feel like a burden to anyone on either side. And, that's the best relationships I've seen that, if you were to look at outside in someone called mentor mentee dynamic play out.
Erik Averill (38:25):
Thanks for sharing that, it's one of the things that continues to resonate as a consistent strength throughout a lot of your answers, seems to be of, not the focus of what can I get out of it, but what's the value add that I can bring, or we as a company can bring to the portfolio of companies, or just it so much of... I think it's such a good mentality for us all to remember, is to not be extractors but to be adding value as where we can. And, when that happens beautiful relationship happens, and we get these organic benefits that really are just the fruit of the relationship. And so. I really appreciate that insight.
Erik Averill (39:09):
One a pivot away from the business conversation, something that you have shared through multiple interviews is you have I think a bigger view of what success means. Of optimizing, it's not just a financial number. It's nothing less than being very successful in the end result for your LPs, and for yourself. But, I've heard you talk about optimizing your health and something of being really... You'd said in a comment, of you want to be a figurehead on multiple levels to your two sons. And so, I know a lot of us personally here and just listening in, are in the same boat, or young fathers, or young mothers that are still trying to have success at work, or still on the field. What advice would you share? Just what you're processing now? What it means to be a young father, a husband, and obviously a business leader as well?
Kobie Fuller (40:06):
Yeah. It's all very much a juggle. There's only so much time in the day and also, you need to have time for yourself, or you will crumble. And for me, it's really a matter of prioritization, and knowing when you're at home, be at home, be present, and be the best father and husband you can be in that moment. And then, knowing that you also have to battle obligations around what it means to be a breadwinner, and to put food on the table, and to create the best life possible for your family, and to do in a way where it serves as an inspiring example with regards to how you did it.
Kobie Fuller (41:03):
And, that you at least in my opinion, that you do it with the highest level of integrity and morals, where it causes you to... You'll be proud of the example you're saying for your kids. And for me, it's never lost to me the fact that everything I do my two little boys they're watching, and they're probably emulating. So, if I have good habits, I'm hoping they pick up those good habits. And, if I have bad habits, they're probably going to pick up those bad habits. So, the day we had our first son, I realized I'm not a kid anymore. That's when you grow up fast. And, there's all these things I had to think about in my life around what am I doing? How am I spending my time? What actions am I taking? What words come on out of my mouth?
Kobie Fuller (41:57):
And, realizing that it's not about just me anymore, it's about these two boys that I hope to bring up as responsible, productive, just kind citizens of this planet. And, they'll go on and they'll do whatever career that makes the most sense to them. But for me, it's how do I raise kind amazing human beings? And, I just need to create the best example that allows them to do that, and create the best environment that allows them to have the luxury to think about some of those things. But, it's tough. It's definitely is tough.
Erik Averill (42:36):
Yeah.
Kobie Fuller (42:37):
And, I think that some of the things I do, is just takes appropriate time during the day to invest in myself and what that means is, I have a rhythm of, I get up and the first thing I do is I get in a really hard workout, and beat the crap out of myself, and that's the investment I put in myself. And, at the end of the day, I absolutely love cooking. And, for me cooking therapeutic, but also it happens to put food on the table. So, I can knock out two birds with one stone, while as I feed the family and be able to cook. And, that's the way of both being selfish and selfless as well at the same time, and that's how I help balance all those things.
Erik Averill (43:21):
Well, it was helpful. I remember back to CES how fired up you were on the sous vide, and watching some of the other athletes not even knowing what it is. My wife is a chef, culinary trained, and so I know the gift of the sous vide, and it's fun to see that passion.
Kobie Fuller (43:38):
Yeah. I can nerd out a bit. It's the least-
Erik Averill (43:42):
Yeah. And, I love it. I think something you would just hit on there right is, while going back to being the athlete and being disciplined and having this results focused is also the understanding of the self-care, you have to stay healthy. And, I think a lot of times we see this in the business world, for a lot of us that have transitioned out of professional sports. It's like, we trained our whole life for a specific purpose. There was this, we're going to actually win, or for us trying to be the best major league player in XYZ. And, you go through this transition and you're like, "Why am I under a squat rack? I've got no goal." But, I think now, what would you say to just maybe the business professional who keeps putting it off, that that isn't paying attention to their health? What's the advice that you would give there?
Kobie Fuller (44:35):
I mean, how I really thought about this is that, if you're not healthy, if you're not really investing in the long-term, then what's going to matter if you're old in age and have all the money in the world, but you're not even there for your family, because you're just in dire straits. And so, for me, I really took a step back and realized, especially as I got into my mid-30s, is that the habits that formed at this point in life, especially having kids, are probably going to be the habits that I have towards the end of my days. So, I better create some pretty good habits, and many of those being oriented around my health. I need to be there, so that I'm properly healthy for my family and for myself, and that's both physical and mental health.
Kobie Fuller (45:35):
So unfortunately, I can do very little with the amount of weight I can squat and bench press these days, but probably right now I can strike into my two little boys for a while. So, there's value in that. But for me, it's just being there and being strong. And also, there's definitely a positive perception you will get in life if you walk around. And, if you are so blessed where you can work out to that level and you can keep in shape, because it is a blessing if you do have the physical ability to actually push your body to that level. That, don't squander that blessing, and hopefully it inspires others to do the same. And so for me, it's just something that's super important to me in terms of how I live my life, is to be as healthy as possible, given whatever I'm able to do physically.
Erik Averill (46:38):
Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you for that. Just being sensitive to time you have shared so many insightful and impactful things. And, I think just in summary, we appreciate just not only the time that you've shared here, but how you continue to just try and think about others. And, whether it's through Valance, or just even this conversation here of figuring out so much of, how are you optimizing yourself really to be the best husband, or father, or leader? And so, thank you so much for the time here. Any parting words for our professional athletes, investors, entrepreneurs, that are listening in?
Kobie Fuller (47:19):
Parting words. I think I said a lot so far. I mean, I'm just humbled that you guys are having me on this podcast to share a lot of honestly just the basic things that have been governors in my life. And, take whatever I've said here for what it's worth, I hope it's of value and if it's not, everyone we're all on this crazy walk of life trying to try to figure it out, and trying to find what works best for us. But, I'm honestly just humbled that you guys are having me on here to partake the knowledge that I have to share.
Erik Averill (48:03):
Absolutely. Well, thank you again and for the Athlete CEO listeners, thank you guys for your attention. And, until next time, stay humble, stay hungry, and exhaust the moment.
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